....to be unsurprised the BBC called the London Oratory a "prestigious private school" when it isn't?

Secondary schools aren’t like primary schools. You don’t have a quick word on the gate, and they aren’t cosy communities. And most of the secondary schools near me only have one open day a year. I’m no cheerleader for the Oratory and we chose not to apply, but you have completely unrealistic expectations

I can't see the problem with a policy saying that children should be baptised by the age of 6 months.

In the small town where I live, the Catholic secondary school has always had a much better reputation than the main secondary school.

Because of this, there have always been parents who suddenly start attending church when their children are in year 5 or 6.

I should imagine that an admissions policy prioritising children who were baptised as infants would be an attempt to weed out fake Catholics.

Good luck to my mate who wana go to los , she has a send kid who has seizure .
needs:
lots nhs dr emails to schools to train them .
lots mum involvement .

Thanks we had not been to the open day . As it’s rare . Once a year I think . Unlike other school more flexible more often more accommodating.so we have not heard that famous speech .

yes my friends both full time workers and kids taking tube to school . So they r very happy about it . Year 7 kids taking tube for 6 years . She treating this as a norm and accept it happily .

we r opposite , we been so involved since nursery & church … and community.
Every schools so far ethos : communication is key .
Even if we don’t get involved we will be called in very often by current “state catholic “to discuss nice things ( not detention ) ….who make initiatives to make effort to contact mums . Or at pick up drop off teachers make initiative to say a few quick words . Even they have same standard strict security system . But they r warm hearted with courtesy and manners .

so guess los is not for us .

but great for those who love this whatever LOS etho

It’s a school renowned for keeping parents at arms length, even by secondary school standards. They don’t really care what parents think and don’t make allowances for anything, and this is very very clear from the open day heads talk. Works very well for some families, others don’t like the ethos so don’t apply. So not sure why you are surprised at the lack of parental involvement.

What is amazing about it?

Well you surely must be aware that it’s a very high performing school. Beyond that, have no real idea why you’re waffling on about quite frankly.

You seem to have some agenda, @Ewrika ? Did your child not get a place?

when they applied , EHCP or no EHCP . All almost auto rejection . Lots got in via appeal .

What is amazing about it ?
no mums there I personally know of dare to call or email school they will be told off harshly . Minimal communication and no volunteering allowed almost

Huh?

My friend came to me in tears about how that school admin woman shouting at her on phone and hang up on her .
totally shocking .
she said it’s like Berlin Wall movie the attitude

Bump

The thread is an interesting study in how tenaciously people will argue that black is white if accepting that it's black would challenge their personal worldview, that's for sure...

Yes - that's what the LSE study I shared above shows.

@Mumofthreedogsandaboy i have personal experience of the headmaster 😉

All types of schools perform better when you compare the one standing in a affluent area (likely to be oversubscribed) with the one in an area with high proxy markers of deprivation

What you could look at instead is schools which are demographically matched

And IIRC (it's a while since I looked at this) when demographically matched there was little difference between schools. But RC ones were noticeable because they tended to be more ethnically diverse (both other white and BAME) and tend to have lower rates of exclusion. Pretty sure the former remains true, but the second point could have changed (depending on whether it was fluke, but less likely if it's connected to the ethos - it's unlikely to be churchgoing stamina as that applies to other denominations)

The Blair's wanted Lady Margaret's for their daughter.. but the school said not as the security would be to invasive...

As has already been explained, Catholic schools only outperform community schools when they are oversubscribed and therefore able to apply selection criteria. The impact of any selection criteria lead to less representative, and disproportionately better-off and higher-attaining school populations. When demographic factors are controlled for, the difference in performance vanishes (source: LSE).

The reality is that the requirements to get a certificate of practice already favour those children with parents who are organised, committed, relatively settled and relatively comfortable at dealing with officialdom. That automatically excludes children from the most chaotic homes (who are more likely to have behaviour issues and/or low prior attainment.

The FSM differential at the Oratory is so stark that it can't be explained away with "unlucky in the lottery" - which, being aware of the interaction of the PAN London system and the school's own admissions policy, you'll know only applies to around 100 places in category B4 (a number that will shrink if the new criteria are adopted for 2025.) And if, as you suggest, poorer and less bright children are choosing not to apply at all despite being eligible - that suggests that the school's apparent success is at least in part down to selling an image of exclusivity that leads some to feel it's not for people like them. (Which takes us back to OP's original thesis - you seem to have made her point for her.)

If the school did want to be more representative, there are many options available to it that other schools use, such as admission banding on prior attainment or a specific allocation of places for children on FSM.

I'm afraid I'm a bit impervious to the lazy debater's backstop of "you're just jealous" when presented with data or arguments that challenge their own narrative and that they do not have the tools to tackle. After years of faith education myself (in a different country) and currently gritting my teeth through a CofE primary as the least bad option available to us, I have zero desire to access Catholic education. I do like facts though, particularly when discussing public policy and its impacts, which is why I've tried to engage in this thread on the basis of evidence and data.

Faith schools in the state sector are really quite rare on an international basis, I wish people could understand how odd it can seem to immigrants like me that the state funds religious segregation and discrimination amongst children. How we got here is fascinating (and certainly not inevitable) but it is unusual, and the vociferousness of those defending the situation can sit very oddly.

Average A Level class size at the London Oratory is 20, often 32 in a GCSE class. No green spaces on site - just concrete. School closed this year for over two weeks for RAC and a day for flooding. Sound like many private schools you know?