To be shocked that over half a million people under the age of 35 are out of work due to long-term sickness

This and decreasing net contributors by taxing them out of productivity. Going to be a harsh wake up call for some - no matter who gets in.

Where can I get one of these cards?

@FestiveFruitloop

Its precisely your kind of wishful "pie in the sky" thinking that will lead to brutal spending cuts when the situation deteriorates further.

Many pensioners do pay tax after retirement. 🙄. Depends on their income.

You don't need to repeat. I am not stupid. I know exactly what state the country is in.

You, however, still seem to be dodging the question of how less fortunate pensioners (who have spent their ENTIRE LIVES funding the system, incidentally) are supposed to find the wherewithal to finance your master plan. Or, indeed, whether it is even their moral responsibility.

In response to those frothing about 'piss-takers', yes of course they exist. But a civilised society does not punish the genuinely needy just because some people choose to game the system.

Some posts on this thread really do hold a mirror up to how nasty some people are becoming if they perceive someone's getting 'something for nothing.' Never mind that most people with physical and mental limitations would give their eye teeth to be healthy enough, not only to work, but to be able to somehow turn themselves into the most appealing candidate among pools of often hundreds, which is the real issue for many. Whether or not someone 'can' work is largely academic if no one will hire them due to their limitations.

@FestiveFruitloop

Let me repeat:

The country is broke. It is literally borrowing money to fund the pensions and healthcare of the old as there is not enough tax revenue coming in.

How have you folks not grasped this?

The "old" will figure this out once they start dying from not being able to access the NHS. Thats already happening and will get exponentially worse as junior doctors leave abroad.

There is no possibility now of "someone else paying for it", which is what has been happening the last 20 years with the "kicking the can down the road" crowd.

The UK has now effectively reached the end of the road due to demographics and Pandemic/Brexit damage.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia

No, its "broadening the tax base", which is precisely what is required. Too many people think they are "owed" public services even though they pay little to nothing in. Its this culture of "something for nothing" that needs to be utterly eradicated in the UK.

But even that will not get you anywhere near enough taxes to fund public services properly due to Brexit damage (which causes a loss of £40bn in tax revenue annually).

We are talking about requiring £100bn+ in additional tax every year.

You would need a combination of tax rises (council tax, removal of personal allowance) and spending cuts to achieve that kind of money.

Thats how bad the situation is in the UK. The country is literally on economic life support, but the politicians keep lying to the public about it.

You can only speak for yourself here.

My relative used their Autism diagnosis as an opt out of work for life card.

@Startingagainandagain and in addition to the magic money tree items you mentioned we of course have the £250 to £400 billion lost on Brexit. a mere trifle of course , plus all the HS2 money.

I cannot help but think the HS2 money was stopped when they saw which way the wind was blowing in the polls and realised bribing those working class northern towns with HS2 and a Brexit that clearly isn't making all but a very few (mainly tradesmen and very well off with offshore money ) better off , no longer was cutting the mustard or believable.

There are though as I've said before some complete perfectly well piss takers out there who do everyone a total disservice including those who genuinely have real physical and/or severe mental health issues and struggle to get any help

Removing the personal allowance is taking from the poorer people. Land Value Tax would hit the richest. The big barrier to LVT isn't the courts, but the MPs taking bribes donations to vote the "right" way.

I understand these points perfectly. But it's naive, and inaccurate, to assume all or even most of the elderly are wealthy just because of that statistic.

Yup. NEETs.

The real question is why there are more young people in this situation than their used to be. Of course there have always been people unable to work.

I have some doubts that it is mainly about young people being more ill with diseases etc. There could be some small element of that, but it's not, IMO, significant. And that will include autism. I don't think autism cases have actually gone up that much.

I'd look at three main things:
Changes in types of employment available meaning that people who used to find work in certain types of jobs no longer can find anything they can do. (Related to this, potentially, changes in education?)

The mental health crises in young people.

A change in attitude to work among young people.

I think these are probably all factors, but I think the latter two are connected to some extent. There is a definite feeling among a good number of young people that if they are feeling shitty, have any pain, or are facing some kind of adversity, they cannot work. I suspect it's a true belief for many of them and it is actually really bad for their mental health.

I have a lot of serious mental health issues in my family and extended family, including older generations, so I'm not unaware they can be very real and sometimes debilitating - I've had family members who have died from mental health problems. I'm not trying to imply they can't be serious.

But the current explosion among young people is not an organic phenomena, and it's not been brought on by "hard times" - those have existed in the past as well, we aren't at some uniquely bad place in history, even if we just look at the last 150 years. It's to do with something we are doing.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia

I don't disagree but they (aristocracy) would likely tie up that legislation in the courts for years.

You might be able to reband council tax and add a few extra upper bands. That should be doable and will get you some £££.

I have a better idea: land value tax. The super-rich can't hide land in offshore tax havens.

@FestiveFruitloop

The "old" in the UK are the wealthiest cohort out of everybody (working people included).

The country will keep imploding until they start paying in a lot more. Too many people in the UK have no idea just how poor the State really is.

The UK is BROKE. How do people not understand this yet?

and worse,

Its going to get much worse as the population ages (more over 65s and less working taxpayers) and demographics kicks in further.

The next 5 years will be economically and financially BRUTAL. Huge spending cuts incoming because of massive tax revenue to spending differences.

Thats what happens when 54% of the population doesn't pay in enough tax.

How are the 'old' supposed to afford that out of their pensions? Always assuming the cost of living hasn't kept them working into their 70s and 80s, I mean...

@Spendonsend

What the UK should be doing is removing the £12.57k personal allowance gradually over the next 10 years, because that is precisely what is slowly destroying the country. It is far too high.

That way EVERYBODY pays in. Including the old.

Thats how you move away from a low wage economy and fund public services properly.

Right now we have many people in the UK paying little to no income tax but massively utilising public services. This has to stop.

Exactly, and similar. On a bad day, and with the benefit of teams "backgrounds" I have even worked from bed.

People with my condition who work in shops etc quite simply don't have the same options and generally can't keep a job. They may however on good weeks manage to look like they aren't ill.

I was diagnosed with a serious physical health condition over two years ago and I have finally worked my way up to having a full time job but it took/takes a lot of effort, luck and currently my whole life revolves around keeping myself well enough for that job. If I hadn't eventually got a diagnosis and had a support network I could easily see myself being part of that half a million.

Giving all PIP claimants another fiver a week would also be small fry, yet I don't see anyone jumping to support that idea.

It's almost like disabled people are disposable subhumans who it's OK to starve to save a bit of cash in the eyes of many.

Kids who were hanging on, following the routine, keeping their heads down at school moved from being “a bit odd” to a label or a statistic.

"A bit odd" at school translates into a lifetime of never fitting in; not coping in social situations; having to jump from job to job to avoid being "managed out", disciplined, or fired; being vulnerable to abuse; constant social anxiety (think no-showing to a wedding levels of social anxiety); struggling with bright lights and loud noises; and thinking all the while that all the above is because you aren't trying hard enough.

If the kid is autistic, the diagnosis will help them understand themselves, acquire a toolset for managing life, and, importantly, not blame themselves.

It’s really small fry. As terrible as the ideas are - stopping them won’t help with a state deficit of 140 billion ish. We are spending behind our means. The wastage of a couple of million here and there is a drop in the ocean to the real issue. Our books don’t balance - catastrophically so.

This is worthy of repeating.

How much was wasted on that asylum seekers' ship with the infected water? How much money has been sent to Rwanda?