To think some romance scam victims are simply stupid?

Think about all the people who post on here putting up with all sorts of shit for the prospect of some love and affection. It's the same thing really.

This is so interesting - I had seen the programme a few years ago when it was first on and never imagined I would know anyone who would fall for one of these scams. In lockdown, a recently separated female friend of mine confided in me on a (socially distanced, countryside!) walk that an American army chap had contacted her via her business FB page and she was falling for him. It took weeks and weeks to convince her that it was a scam. Even when I did the reverse image search, she made out that the other accounts were the fakes (they were all fakes, there was no way to tell which was the original person) and her man was the real thing. Interestingly, even in real life, she was very easily manipulated- her ex husband had convinced her that their family home was his and his alone as he had been the sole earner for most of their marriage. He managed to get her to move to Australia and isolate her from her support networks. So she definitely gives off a vibe of emotional vulnerability. She is a very average person (I don’t mean that in any way disrespectfully - she’s not got any learning disabilities, she held down a job before she met her ex, has HND level qualifications, now runs a small domestic business, manages to look after herself and two kids, nothing to say she is susceptible on paper) but something in her gives off the sense to people who are exploitative that she is an easy mark. I can’t tell you what it is, but I picked up on it not long after I met her. So if the scammers cast out enough nets, people like my friend will fall for it due to their own unique brain chemistry not having that self-protective layer.

*CoatOfArms · Today 11:02

Very very gullible and probably a bit desperate. Doesn't speak volumes as their ability as an "international business development manager" that they send £130k to some bloke they've never met who is supposedly in the Ukraine building something or other.

The presenters always say things like "it could happen to anyone"*

It only happens if you have some high opinion of yourself, time on your hands and cash or credit to throw around

If you are realistic about your looks with no money or time to take on other peoples problems then the chances are you won’t get scammed

Who on earth has the time to read about how you have won a lottery you never entered or some random wants to chat on FB.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001t3nf
this pod cast is fascinating

Frequently, not the marks. That's why they go bankrupt.

It's also why it's stupid when people, looking to disparage them further, call them gold diggers when they're women. What kind of half-competent gold digger gives money to her putative sugar daddy? In fact, people are often pressured to cough up in order to prove that they're not gold diggers.

Well I am a middle aged woman from Stoke and I think Jason would be lucky to have me ! 😁

@HolyZarquonsSingingSeals

"What fascinates me is how do people so stupid get to have so much money in the first place?"

This did make me laugh. I must admit when you hear they've drawn out £100,000 and then 3 weeks later another £50,000 followed by £30,000 and so on. Most of them don't seem to have had stellar jobs or anything. Who's got that sort of money?

Those are a very very low percentage of successful scams.

They've already been punished for their foolishness by losing money and heartbreak; I don't know why people have to make up further moral failings. Presumably to convince themselves that they would never ever fall for something similar, being not only too clever but also too morally wonderful.

I have mixed feelings about this. Yes people can be stupid, and some people are greedy and that leads to being scammed. But we as a society, and I include friends, neighbours, banks, churches, family, "support" networks - we allow loneliness - we almost encourage it.

All these factors - and many more - have influenced how individuals live their lives and how they can become lonely and caught up in a alternative reality.
Online banking, (no friendly branches with the cashiers that knew you), adult kids who "go low contact" because they don't approve of your "views" and don't need you, neighbours who are too busy or too prejudiced, (race/age/status/class) to look in or chat over the fence or answer the door. The demise of the pub, day centre, church; of easy jobs where Joan or David feels valued and part of something. The attitude to grandparents - a nuisance who have "had their turn". The lack of any support for elderly care or care for young adults who are struggling and who cannot get a job. The decline in public transport and small shops and the shift to an online life - a new reality. People often really are drifting untethered.

So whilst yes, some people are stupid - we all believe that our lovely partner loves us, so we move in, marry, have kids. Why do we all think we are worthy of that? (because he told us, because he's been so lovely to us???)

And at what point do you look at yourself and really believe that you can't possibly be worthy of love? Because that's the key.

I watched a few of those programmes, even when presented with the facts it's a scam, that the pictures are fake etc, some of the victims are still making excuses and refusing to believe it. My nephew worked at bank customer service and he said he spends ages trying to warn people about making transfers to dodgy people, but they insist its sent. There's only so much you can do if victims refuse to accept the truth

I looked her up after the documentary finished. She has put several posts on Facebook and has been on other TV shows about this, it all started in lockdown. There were lots of warning signs going through the story. It's an astonishing story. She said she felt like killing herself. She seems to have turned it around now as she has just moved into a new build detached house.

I don't think they're necessarily always stupid. They'll know exactly the sort of people to target I think.

I've read past threads where they won't be told, or face reality, when they're obviously being scammed. I think that's sad.

So there are people out there even dafter than she is!

It's the type of person they believe that loves them makes them narcistic. I have someone who loves me, so do not consider myself unloveable. It's the fact that they believe the likes of Johnny Depp or Barry Gibb or some stranger half their agie will fall for them and contact them over the internet which brings narcissism into it.

A friend of mine who I met through volunteering lost everything for a Nigerian price. No lie. She is a good 30 years older than me. Was going through a divorce at the time. Had just come into money from her share of the house etc.. still to this day we don't know how she fell for it as she's so switched on normally. She got some of her money back but not all of it unfortunately.

I don;t think many of these people DO have lots of money. The £131k was unusual, and not all hers. She had taken out loans and asked family for money.

Most of the romance scammers will start smaller and work up to the bigger amounts as time goes on. Alarm bells should start ringing with the very first request for cash but never does.

My MIL was scammed out of around £50k by a ‘builder’ who became her ‘friend’ not long after she was widowed. She was going to go away with him for the weekend and rang my SIL sounding like a 15 yr old excited girl which is when we found out. Despite the police becoming involved (which took a long time) she insisted he was her ‘special friend’ and he would pay her back money she had loaned him.

the family moved her out and sold the house. Whilst the house was empty someone broke in but we had taken all paperwork by then so there was nothing of value for them to get.

if the police had acted sooner they could have tracked them down as they had left scaffolding at the property.

she was definately lonely and wanting male attention as she continued having strange relationships after that and never spoke of what happened.

Some people have the emotional buttons and decision making habits that make them easier to manipulate.

The Leave campaigns targeted these people so we know that at the time of the Brexit vote there were at least 17 million of them in the U.K.

People in thrall to conspiracy theories also have the same issue.

Because making a foolish decision in one area of your life where you are vulnerable does not mean you are a blithering idiot in absolutely everything you do. I'd think this was obvious, especially to clever people.

YABU.

It's really easy to sit in judgement from a position of someone who can see through the lies - but the victims of these frauds are vulnerable, by age, loneliness, educational disability etc. The fraudsters are really clever, these crimes are played out over months or years, they take their time building rapport, trust, confidence. They don't start out asking for money. It's something that they build up to once they've tricked their victim into believing they are in a serious, committed relationship.

I work closely with agencies who support these victims, and they are often left completely broken, financially, and emotionally. Some still don't even believe they have been scammed. It's incredibly sad.

What fascinates me is how do people so stupid get to have so much money in the first place?

@MikeRafone Exactly, they target widely knowing that they only need a tiny percentage of attempts to land on fertile ground.

The thing is that these scammers succeed when they manage to reach someone who isn't thinking rationally, because they are vulnerable. Maybe they're exceptionally lonely or exceptionally desperate for other reasons. When we are afraid, isolated etc, our capacity for clear and measured thought hugely decreases. This isn't a sign someone is exceptionally dim. The same effect would be observed in all of us if the conditions were right.

One of the world's leading experts on chatbots - a hugely learned scientist - was fooled by a romance scam chatbot! He's very humble about it and uses his experience to teach this lesson.

It's very comforting to think that our capacity for rational thought is innate and fixed, but actually it's incredibly contextual (and most of us are a lot less rational than we like to think at the best of times). Add to this the skillful means by which the scammers exploit any weaknesses they find - like jamming a tool into a crack - and bingo.

Its not narcissistic. Its right and healthy for a person to believe they are worthy of being loved. You would need to be a pretty despicable person or have extremely low self esteem to consider yourself unlovable. And I doubt for a moment the victims consider themselves 'gorgeous' simply that they've found someone who loves them despite their age/appearance, which no doubt the scammers are very skilled at convincing them.

They don't, they cast their net far and wide. Ive had scammers come on to me, but there were to many inaccuracies, this was after about 6 texts I was suspicious - so asked a couple of other questions which confirmed it was a scammer. blocked and move on