Not letting ex take baby on Xmas Day?

Stop doing this

I see that your ex forwarded his parents’ message to you. I’d be concerned about that. Are they only hearing his side of the story and what have they said to you on the two occasions when you have seen them face to face? It might be that they do want to be involved grandparents but your ex is the problem.

In your shoes, I might try limited direct contact with the grandparents and see how it goes.

To be honest, I don’t think I would bother making an effort to get ex involved in DC’s life. From what you have described, he is, at best, a flake. He is unlikely to be a permanent, stable addition to DC’s life.

The sooner you accept that, the better. Lower your hopes and expectations and accept that he will breeze in and out of your DC’s life at his own convenience. Don’t make a big deal out of it, put the best spin on it for DC, just accept it because you can’t change it.

OP your instincts are spot on, please don't doubt yourself or feel you need to justify yourself further. Not on here, and not to those hypocritical arseholes who want you to hand over a your baby while apologising for ruining their lives by having him in the first place!

No no no no no no!

Do not feel guilty. These are not nice people. Your baby is not a possession. Your baby needs you, not them! It horrifies me you’d even consider leaving your baby with strangers who don’t know him, or his likes and dislikes and how to comfort him!
Tell them to F off. Stand firm for your baby’s sake :)

What cases?

This sounds like an urban family court legend to he honest. I mean, courts having no respect for a woman's body wouldn't be all that new but court ordered expressing? Fuck off.

@confusedex2 No way are you being unreasonable.

You have invited them to see the baby at yours.. That is very kind, stick to that.

The baby will be distressed without you there, so no way.

YADNBU. Stick to your guns on this.

Your baby is not a toy or a Christmas decoration that they can demand to have time with.

Make notes on every request and your offers of compromise.

And consider formalising everything at some point if you believe it would be beneficial for your child to have a relationship with their father.

Nope, nope, nope.

Do not follow some of the ruder suggestions here. Instead point out that you have tried to facilitate a relationship between him and the baby but he and his parents are still strangers to the baby. It is a long journey for so young a child and would be distressing for them. Express the hope that their relationship will develop and a visit will be possible next year.

Keep sounding reasonable, centering the interests of the baby and making it clear you wont ever stop him seeing the baby. Then if he tried to take you to court you can show you've tried and he's being unreasonable.

Have you seen any cases in the UK where the mother has been "told to express"?

If yes, in what capacity? Do you work in a relevant field or have you read reports somewhere? If the latter perhaps you could link to them.

My baby is 11 months old and barely eating any solids now and will not take a bottle. My carefully expressed milk has ended up in the bath or being fed to my toddler.

Offer him and parents a visit at a contact centre. Cover your backside,

He doesn’t sound like someone who would go to court or keep up with a visitation schedule anyway.
Id just ignore his silly messages.

You're absolutely right! Stick to your guns!

An example of: Tosspot parents => tosspot son. How on earth can the parents, who have had at least one baby themselves, even entertain the suggestion that you do this.

As for saying expecting YOU to say sorry, they need to apologise to you. I’m sorry you are going through this crap. op!

Oh, and pre-kids I’d have probably thought you were being the unreasonable one, after kids - no way, 100% them!

Also: Re you doing irrevocable damage, THEY are the ones that could cause underlying psychological damage to your child if this goes ahead! Christmas is already a “different” day with loud/atypical/exciting/enervating things happening, but take you away (primary caregiver breastfeeding mum) and replace you with mental strangers (overhyped bio grandparents, little known bio dad) on this already unusual day, and I see all sorts of weird memories/potential anxieties being laid down in your kid…

Hard no from me, and a wish for you to never ever feel guilty about this. I wouldn’t want those tossers in juniors life anyway. Good luck!!

I have a 10 month old. If I tried to pass them to complete strangers he would be completely stressed and overwhelmed and think I was a abandoning him.

If they thought keeping the baby was a wrong decision and too stressful then they don’t need to see your baby and ‘stress’ themselves out further

They’re right - you made your choice and they made theirs. They didn’t want you to have your child, they don’t now get to say they want to see them.

Please stop feeling guilty instead you should feel angry!

Your DC does not have a relationship with his parents nor much of one with your ex. How dare they demand that they have DC for half the day. How dare they demand that you apologise for getting pregnant!

This is babies first Christmas, so a pretty special one. DC should be with people that they love and have a relationship with. Meaning you/your family/friends.

Message him now and say that you have offered an alternative if he doesn’t like it, then he will not see the DC on Xmas day.

I would then temporarily block his number or turn off any notifications from him/his parents.

You are being very reasonable, so it is time to ignore them.

No way!

Absolutely not! Let him take you to court for access to the baby. You have done as much as you can. Having been through the courts twice over access to the children, there is no way the courts would allow the ex to take the baby for length of time, whilst breastfeeding and having had so little involvement. Stand your ground and keep a record off all messages sent. I now only communicate with my ex via email so it's all in writing.good luck.

Absolutely not, who the fuck do they think they are?

His parents relationship with the baby is his problem, and I would tell him so. He can keep their threatening messages to himself and if he wants them to have a relationship to baby he'll have to grow the fuck up and be a father won't he.

They didn’t want you to keep your baby, offered you no support in pregnancy, he denied paternity and refused to be on the birth certificate. No this is not a situation in which you should feel the tiniest shred of guilt. Stay strong, your baby stays with you where they belong. No way would I have allowed this for mine when they were this tiny. I think the idea of putting it calmly and clearly in writing is an excellent one. Protect yourself and make sure you’re keeping that evidence. Hope you and your baby have a lovely first Christmas together xx

OP you sound lovely. You absolutely have your baby’s needs front and centre of your priorities. I admire how you have attempted to involve DC dad and DC grandparents despite the back story and DC dad apparent inability to be a dad. All your instincts are spot on except the one that feels worried by their manipulations. You’ve offered to host them. That’s in your baby’s best interests. Anything involving baby being away from you isn’t. And don’t apologise. Please hold your nerve in the face of ridiculous manipulation. You are doing brilliantly. They need to make some adjustments to be part of yours and your baby’s lives. Although honestly it doesn’t sound like they don’t deserve to be. And maybe get some legal advice from the likes of Rights of Women around holding your boundaries going forward. These do not sound like nice people and they do not appear to have yours or your baby’s best interests at heart.

YANBU. Very naive of him and his parents should know better.
You have made a generous offer for them to come to you. Tell him that if he maintains regular contact throughout 2024 and DC is happy in his company, he can have DC for 1/2 day next year? It would be good for you and DC in the longterm if he can/does step- up.

Nope child is breast fed it’s not viable. As a separated parent it’s frustrating as it’s hard to agree on routines etc. But going forward it’s about putting routines in place.

I don't even have children but - NO!

Absolutely ridiculous. Absolutely not. I wouldn't even entertain this idea. They're not thinking of what's best for the baby at all, just their own selfish wants.