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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

785 replies

nhd · 15/12/2023 15:00

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

OP posts:
snackatack · 16/12/2023 20:50

You seem quite negative to people not saying you are right.

Having a different voice than yours for your DD is vital.

She will find her own way in her own time and in 10 years - you will realise you are not the most influential factor in her life. Your SIL is providing an strong view of womanhood..

DarkwingDuk · 16/12/2023 20:48

You don’t seem to want to actually hear what people are saying to you.

You've got an argument for everything - why ask if you’re not going to listen?

I have 2 children, one AFAB who’s a teen and one toddler who is a rather girly girl - I do not use “pretty” as a describer, it’s not what I’ve ever want my children to worry about.

Your SIL is actually right in pointing out your DD may want to date girls, especially within that conversation - do you not think a single sex school with only her preferred dating pool would be distracting?
She didn’t say your DD should go to football, she simply reminded her she could. My eldest wasn’t interested in football at 3 and is now a very successful goalie because they were always told they could do whatever they wanted.
You were the one who emphasised your DD would be pretty in a dress.

The amount of ‘pretty’, ‘dresses’ and ‘make up’ that will be shoved down the throat of a little girl it’s actually very important for them to be told ‘pretty’ means nothing and they are perfect as they are.

I would suggest you adjust your perspective - having this separate voice will be far more helpful to your DD than it will be ‘harmful’

Stop arguing because you think you’re right and you don’t like the answers you’re getting and hear what people are trying to tell you.

Hagpie · 16/12/2023 20:48

She’s not doing anything wrong and actually kinda filling in the gaps you’re missing. 3 year olds don’t take hints - you have to say it.

Trishthedish · 16/12/2023 20:46

from all the responses I’m reading the op should not tell her daughter that she’s pretty, so just remain non committal, therefore making her feel nothing she does is good enough. Neither should she be teaching her to bake, even though baking is a life skill.

clearly I failed at parenthood, telling my son what a handsome boy he was, and teaching him how to bake and cook and clean up after himself. I also failed my daughter by insisting by that she change out of jodhpurs and football shirts to get into school uniform. I also told both of them what beautiful souls they were/are.

both are heterosexual, married and with thriving careers.

HamBone · 16/12/2023 20:42

I think she's just offering and adding alternative views so your DD grows up knowing that there's more than way to do things.

@JediNinja Let’s hope that’s the case, but given how the SIL criticizes her Mum for cooking, DH and her DH for toy choices, etc., I have a feeling that if her niece ends up liking anything her auntie doesn’t approve of, she’ll be laid into as well!

AnneValentine · 16/12/2023 20:41

nhd · 15/12/2023 15:18

Eg1. There's no indication she is gay or straight. If she ever expresses a preference for either gender, which she's too young to do at the moment, we will deal with it then. On the balance of probability she will prefer boys as most people are straight, so if we're discussing mixed vs single sex schools and I want to take into account that going to a mixed school could result in her being distracted by boys or maybe it's a good thing she learns to socialise with them, then yes we should consider that.

Eg2. I'm all for encouraging her to follow her interests - whether that's baking or football. But if she enjoys baking she shouldn't be constantly reminded that she COULD be doing football. If it was the other way round, say she went to watch football, and someone kept saying "but you know, as a girl, you could bake instead" that would be sexist and inappropriate. So why not let her enjoy what she enjoys without bringing her gender into it? If she ever expressed an interest in football she'd be signed up to classes and she'd go but when watching her cousin play football (my sis's son) she said she didn't want to join and didn't appear to enjoy watching so we left.

  1. Surely I can at least encourage my child to wear clean clothes? Not force. Encourage. Rather than actively give her the option of walking around dirty.
  1. She's just copying mummy. Same way she copies most things I do. And I've never said I'm putting on make up for my husband, I'm putting it on because I enjoy it, it's a form of art to me and I find it confidence boosting.

Eg1. Of course she hasn’t but you’re positioning the norm as straight. If she is homosexual she will be very aware of that as she grows up. The norm and other.

JediNinja · 16/12/2023 20:21

I think she's just offering and adding alternative views so your DD grows up knowing that there's more than way to do things. Your DD will probably just copy you nevertheless but if at some point she feels that that's not her, she knows that there are other options because her aunty often reminds her of them. Think of this as a well-balanced upbringing because she's being shown different ways and reminded that things are not set on stone just because she's a girl. It's a great message to grow up with, and even if she still chooses baking or whatever, children change mind so quickly over the years that when and if the stage of football comes, she will know it's perfectly fine, and if after a few years she turns suddenly into a gymnastics passionate, she will know that it's also perfectly fine. Be happy that she has so many different views around her so she can truly explore what she likes and evolve without the fear that whatever might not be suitable or that she won't get support.

pinkfun · 16/12/2023 20:16

Let's face it, you're woke because it let's you be annoyed with the world because you're unhappy in your own skin.

saraclara · 16/12/2023 20:13

DD was gifted a toy kitchen and as DD began playing with it SIL asked why we allow those kinds of toys, to which DH responded that we just "allow" age appropriate toys and anything she will enjoy playing with, including some toy tanks that she inherited from her boy cousin and a miniature car that she can "drive" / sit inside among others. SIL gave him a huge lecture about how we're just confining her to cooking for a man and it's encouraging her to focus on only girl skills etc

Yep, she's over the top and actively trying to restrict her niece's opportunities, not extend them.

Toomuchtrouble4me · 16/12/2023 20:13

Too annoyingly woke for me. I’d tell her to stop manipulating my child and don’t contradict me, ever, or you won’t be part of her life.

saraclara · 16/12/2023 20:11

But it's not terrible to remind girls from a young age that they CAN in fact do anything (whether that's bake or play football

Of course it isn't. I imagine that everyone here agrees with that. Including OP who is an engineering graduate, not a nurse or a hairdresser.

But it's HOW AND WHEN sil is doing it that's the problem. Ignoring her niece's pride in her baking achievement, overriding OP when it comes to her asking her DD to get dressed, etc.

Thementalloadisreal · 16/12/2023 20:08

pinkfun · 16/12/2023 19:17

@Tandora but the issue here is she's doing all this to a 3 year old!!!!! That is extreme! So therefore would imply she's got issues...??

Why is it “extreme” to tell a 3 year old girl they can like football and have a girlfriend one day? Is it also “extreme” to tell a 3 year old girl they can like ballet / make up etc and have a boyfriend one day?

It’s really not that crazy to bring children up to be more open minded.

MaidOfSteel · 16/12/2023 20:08

VanityDiesHard · 15/12/2023 23:32

I totally agree. These 'feminist' threads all seem to go the same way. You are only a true feminist if you dress in a boiler suit to go on a night out, work full time as well as parenting your children, to show that women can have it all, and bring up your girl children to see lipstick as the enemy. I haven't seen anything like it since 1995. Absurd.

Show quote history

Until I started reading some of the nasty, judgmental replies in this thread, I would have called myself a feminist. But this new feminism seems to be all about showing disdain & disgust for women who want to stay at home to bring up their children. I'm in my 50s now and women putting other women down for their own decisions, why ever made, isn't what I thought feminism was about.

Themaghag · 16/12/2023 20:07

I can’t believe the pile on! If I were you OP, I’d tell your SIL that when she has her own child she can bring it up however she likes, but until then she should butt out and leave you to bring up your child as you wish! And I speak as an ardent feminist myself!

teoma · 16/12/2023 20:06

Your SIL is seriously messed up.

Original poster
nhd · 16/12/2023 20:05

AllyArty · 16/12/2023 18:45

I think your SIL is overstepping the mark. What does yr husband think of her comments. I wonder if she had her own children would she be so pass remarkable about your child? I think u and yr husband should have a chat with her and tell her how you feel. If you don’t address it now she won’t stop.

My DH just says that's the way she is and you can't change her. On one occasion (separate story but DD was gifted a toy kitchen and as DD began playing with it SIL asked why we allow those kinds of toys, to which DH responded that we just "allow" age appropriate toys and anything she will enjoy playing with, including some toy tanks that she inherited from her boy cousin and a miniature car that she can "drive" / sit inside among others. SIL gave him a huge lecture about how we're just confining her to cooking for a man and it's encouraging her to focus on only girl skills etc. How rude of people (my very close friend who is like an aunty to DD and 100% knows what would be fine and wouldn't be fine with me) to gift without asking me. How thoughtless of us to just let her play with what she enjoys without thinking how it impacts her. Asked DH if he cared at all how his daughter will grow up.

He just laughs it off and says it's his sis

OP posts:
lovelyoldtree · 16/12/2023 20:00

My daughter loved everything pretty and sparkly growing up. My niece refused point blank to wear any girls' clothes from the age of 3. We let them get on with what they were comfortable with and it hasn't restricted who they are as adults.

teoma · 16/12/2023 19:56

I think talking to a 3 year old about dating is ridiculous.

TreacleMines · 16/12/2023 19:47

SouthLondonMum22 · 16/12/2023 18:06

Maternity leave is available when women have just given birth for up to a year. You don't need to be a SAHM for that.

Of course they are conditioned to be carers. Studies show that adults treat boy babies and girl babies differently, it starts from day dot.

Show quote history

Of course they are conditioned to be carers. Studies show that adults treat boy babies and girl babies differently, it starts from day dot.

You are preaching to the choir, in my former life I was a sociologist- I know how socialisation works.

What you are saying makes as much sense as me saying “all women who choose to have a relationship with a man are not making a feminist choice- if women stopped having relationships with men then the gender stereotypes would be better challenged. All women who marry and combine income with a man are contributing to men holding the economic power etc etc”.

H007 · 16/12/2023 19:45

YABU SIL is exactly the type of person all little girls should have around, everything she is saying is true and will empower your little girl.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 16/12/2023 19:39

nhd · 15/12/2023 15:25

She's gone to a football match (played by her cousin) and asked to leave.

I'm not limiting her to dating anyone, I'm discussing choice of schools and whether she will be with boys (whom she may or may not want to date) or without

Show quote history

But are you taking the same thing into account about girls when considering the same-sex schools?

I am raising my DD in a similar way to what your SIL sounds like she'd approve of tbh. Not every time I speak to her but then again I'm with my DD more than your SIL is likely with yours. But it's not terrible to remind girls from a young age that they CAN in fact do anything (whether that's bake or play football) and that make up is optional and clothes don't have to be "pretty". They are SURROUNDED by people calling them or girly things pretty. Your job is to make it known that non "girly" is also OK, and still pretty. She's still pretty with one sock on and soup down her top. Yes encourage her to wear clean clothes but for hygiene not prettiness.

If, after being neutral on everything, she wants to be a Disney princess, all power to her. Equally if she wants to spend all her time in dirty clothes working on cars, brilliant. But its up to her. I've never been what you'd call girly or enjoyed "making myself pretty". My DD asks for pink, dresses and dolls sometimes and I am happy for her to have them. Same as when she asks for dinosaurs and cars and announces BALL KICK when she wants to play football. Go for it. Try everything not just what mummy likes.

Perky1 · 16/12/2023 19:29

Sister in law imposing her values on your child without your permission it’s a red flag!

Ladysmirnoff1 · 16/12/2023 19:25

Blimey so many woke people on here. She's your daughter . Bring her up as you see fit. I feel at 3 years old she should just enjoy being a child and not being told that she can be a lesbian , go out dressed in dirty clothes etc. She can make her own mind up when she's older. Let her enjoy the innocence of being a child.

GillianCarole · 16/12/2023 19:24

Parent confirmed that she isn't gender-specific with daughter (although may have made a generalisation in passing), and that DD did go to a football match, but didn't enjoy it, and not interested in playing.

DitheringBlidiot · 16/12/2023 19:17

SkySecret · 15/12/2023 15:40

All the people digging at OP for suggesting she might date boys…. ignoring that SIL said she didn’t need to wear make up “for a man” lol. Double standards, much.

It’s not inappropriate to make an innocent assumption that your very young kid will be heterosexual. The issue would come further down the line if you instilled into them that homosexuality is wrong, or didn’t accept them if they did come out as gay. Relationship and sex ed talk is a long way off for this small child.

Personally I think it's quite weird to think about any child's sexuality.

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