Page 27 | To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

nhd · 2023-12-15T15:00:43+00:00

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3. DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful. Comments that she will make: Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!" Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football). Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head? Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

chillin12 · 15/12/2023 16:34

DinkyDonkey2018 · 15/12/2023 16:28

She needs to be told to get back in her lane. It reads like she's subtly undermining you and your DD choices (at 3!!), perhaps unintentionally, but she needs to be reminded that her opinions on how your daughter behaves isn't needed and you have it all in hand.

There's nothing wrong with telling her how pretty she is, nothing wrong with her leaving the house clean and presentable and nothing wrong with baking because it's an activity of her choice and interest.

💯

BethDuttonsTwin · 15/12/2023 16:34

Only a slight majority of younger generations are fully straight. Likely for younger generations even less. Stats show that only around 50% of gen z are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to the opposite sex (and imagine if some of those people grew up in families or with peers who don’t accept that.)

Nonsense. Being “queer” has immense social currency right now and that is what is driving those “stats”. Nothing more boring than being a heterosexual youngster right now so they’re all pretending to be something else. They’ll grow out of it and the next generation will look back with incomprehension at how ridiculous it all was.

CatamaranViper · 15/12/2023 16:33

I can see where your SIL is coming from tbf.

I have a DS who is 7. DH and I got married when he was little so he was very curious about marriage and asked a lot of questions about who can get married etc. He asked if he could marry me for example and I said no, but when he's older he can marry anyone he wants. He's specifically asked me if boys can marry boys and I've said he absolutely can if that's what he wants. I know the chances are he will marry a woman if he ever does get married, but I don't want him to ever think that if he is bi/gay, that it wouldn't be a problem in any way.

Plenty of the boys at school have started on the whole 'pink is a girly colour therefore horrible' and I have to keep saying that pink isn't just for girls and there's nothing wrong with girls.

Stopbloodybanging · 15/12/2023 16:33

YANBU
Your sil is trying too hard to be woke in situations that don’t warrant it. I don’t necessarily disagree with her sentiments but it’s not appropriate to undermine you nor to push an agenda so hard with a three yr old!
And as an aside, in the absence of any indication otherwise (which would be absolutely fine btw) I have always assumed my dd will date boys and my ds will date girls. That is what the majority of people do.

RedRidingGood · 15/12/2023 16:32

CityLass · 15/12/2023 16:30

I’m going against the grain here. I would not have this woman around my child - end of. She’s annoying and is undermining you and your values as a family unit. She can have her own children and raise them as she sees fit but I would not allow her to influence my child. I wear makeup each and every day, my daughter wears pretty dresses and ribbons in her hair and I won’t apologise to anyone.

This!

RedRidingGood · 15/12/2023 16:31

Ugh I find your SIL so annoying. She's not the mother she should stay in her lane.

Nanny0gg · 15/12/2023 16:30

Nt1993 · 15/12/2023 15:56

I felt maybe this could possibly be the issue too! Maybe cool aunt has heard and seen things she doesn’t agree with.

Show quote history

Which, quite frankly, is tough

She can bring up her own children anyway she likes.

She can have reasonable conversations with the OP and her brother

But it's not for her to try and bring up her niece

CityLass · 15/12/2023 16:30

I’m going against the grain here. I would not have this woman around my child - end of. She’s annoying and is undermining you and your values as a family unit. She can have her own children and raise them as she sees fit but I would not allow her to influence my child. I wear makeup each and every day, my daughter wears pretty dresses and ribbons in her hair and I won’t apologise to anyone.

Blueblell · 15/12/2023 16:29

the constant commentary would grate on me too. But as you say it is not out of malice so I would suck it up. I think the answer is you let kids lead what their interests are without too much pushing. If she didn’t want to wear a dress she would probably say. Left to their own devices some girls really do like pink stuff - it would wrong to not allow that otherwise it’s just being forced to conform but to something else.

Nanny0gg · 15/12/2023 16:28

nearlyemptynes · 15/12/2023 15:52

Your SIL has worked out your underlying prejudices and is trying to make sure they don't rub off on DD. Her views are not extreme and you need to get with the times, your daughter will put you right as she grows up.

I'm not entirely sure that it is an aunt's job to 'make sure' anything.

If that was a mother-in-law the OP would be told to go low contact!

DinkyDonkey2018 · 15/12/2023 16:28

She needs to be told to get back in her lane. It reads like she's subtly undermining you and your DD choices (at 3!!), perhaps unintentionally, but she needs to be reminded that her opinions on how your daughter behaves isn't needed and you have it all in hand.

There's nothing wrong with telling her how pretty she is, nothing wrong with her leaving the house clean and presentable and nothing wrong with baking because it's an activity of her choice and interest.

TomeTome · 15/12/2023 16:28

God SIL sounds like a bore.

saraclara · 15/12/2023 16:26

if the kid wants to bake she should be allowed to bake a cake without her aunt making out she's feministing wrong.

That. I was determined that my DDs wouldn't be pushed into sexist norms, but it's just as bad to push them into 'boy' stuff so that you can then congratulate yourself on being a 'good feminist'.

But your kids dolls and cars. Buy them clothes in all colours. Encourage then to kick a ball and bake a cake. Then let then decide for themselves what gives them pleasure.

Foxblue · 15/12/2023 16:25

Your daughter is going to unfortunately have to deal with the drip drip drip drip drip of heteronormative, women are only of value if they are pretty, girls do X and boys do Y her entire life, from friends, family, the Internet, school, college, uni, the workplace, the media (over and over and over again) so I think the fact there's a voice in her life that's being crystal clear about these things is lovely, because one way to look at it is your SIL is presenting a view 1% of the time, you another 19% as her parents, but the other 80% is the relentless bullshit from outside factors that she will deal with her whole life - so you and your SIL's input being 20% doesn't seem over the top, in the long run.

chiwowowa · 15/12/2023 16:23

SIL sounds beyond tedious.
I'm allergic to know-it-all's of any stripe.
Loudly preaching ideas that are socially acceptable in a 21st century western country as if you're some kind of revolutionary superhero is total cringe.

fpqand · 15/12/2023 16:23

Assuming this isn't a reverse (because that's how awesome I think she sounds ha) it sounds like she is a good addition to both your lives. Don't overthink it, she won't be saying it with half the level of sincerity you're taking it as, most will go over your daughter's head, you don't have to agree with everything she says, a fresh perspective is healthy.

Pusheen467 · 15/12/2023 16:20

chillin12 · 15/12/2023 16:12

Against the grain here, it seems, but I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. Your daughter is still so young. It’s perfectly normal for you to say she will be into boys, majority are straight. There’s no need to infiltrate such a young child with all this extra, regarding gender, stereotypes etc. I’m sure your daughter isn’t even thinking about it, or why she isn’t allowed to play football etc. She seems like she is enjoying the baking activity. I don’t see anything wrong with wearing a nice dress and feeling pretty, either.

Edited

I agree. My daughter is five and I discuss these things with her when it comes up naturally in conversation.

FrostyFogg · 15/12/2023 16:20

EarringsandLipstick · 15/12/2023 16:03

@nhd

Geez, some of these answers ... 'I love SIL' etc. Nope I would NOT love her and would almost certainly have had a row with her by now.

She's annoying AF, and totally over-stepping to boot.

You seem to have a really good handle on how to approach your DD - issues with empowerment do not arise because of occasional (or even regular) comments about being pretty or imitating a parent applying makeup. It's much more about the values and ethos of how a family lives their lives, and as much about unstated views as anything else.

It's completely fine for DD to express a desire to be 'pretty' or for you to do so - it doesn't correlate with the mistaken beliefs of some here that this is now subjugating her to a life where she is judged exclusively on her physical appearance.

Above all that though, it's simply not SIL's role to decide what can and cannot be said to your DD, and what messages she needs to hear.

A good aunt (or other extended relative) is there in a benign, engaged role - can be easier-going and relaxed in a way a parent might not always be (as they are not responsible); can be another loving presence that's more a treat (as not there all the time) than a child's own parent is.

If they want to model anything, let them do so in their own lives and actions, that the child will observe - their relationships, priorities, job / education. They don't need to go around heavy-handed, picking up on innocuous comments and thinking they are making some point that a 3 yo picks up. They don't.

But ... as to what you can do ... I'm not sure. You probably don't want to have a row about it or make an issue - I think the MN hard stare / head tilt could be employed, but honestly, if there were enough irritating comments, I would call her out.

I think you sound great OP, btw!

I was going to say this, but @EarringsandLipstick saved me the trouble!

BethDuttonsTwin · 15/12/2023 16:19

She sounds irritating as fuck.

Nt1993 · 15/12/2023 16:19

chillin12 · 15/12/2023 16:12

Against the grain here, it seems, but I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. Your daughter is still so young. It’s perfectly normal for you to say she will be into boys, majority are straight. There’s no need to infiltrate such a young child with all this extra, regarding gender, stereotypes etc. I’m sure your daughter isn’t even thinking about it, or why she isn’t allowed to play football etc. She seems like she is enjoying the baking activity. I don’t see anything wrong with wearing a nice dress and feeling pretty, either.

Edited

Only a slight majority of younger generations are fully straight. Likely for younger generations even less. Stats show that only around 50% of gen z are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to the opposite sex (and imagine if some of those people grew up in families or with peers who don’t accept that.)

Peachy2005 · 15/12/2023 16:18

I don’t see anything “harmful” in any of her comments you’ve mentioned. It’s good for your daughter to be exposed to different perspectives. The “you’ll look so pretty” comment is perhaps the wrong message for little girls though. Wearing clean clothes to an event is a perfectly reasonable minimum standard to enforce though.

saraclara · 15/12/2023 16:17

I wear make up probably once a week. Every day my daughter chooses her own outfit from a wardrobe that contains her boy cousin's hand me downs, very girly dresses, blues, greens, pinks, trackies, glittery tops etc (subject to her outfit choice being weather appropriate obviously

Then SIL is being a pain in the neck. Girls are allowed to like 'girl' stuff too, and the comment about the baking was just ridiculous.

Boys and girls should be allowed to do and be interested in anything. And if it turns out that a boy who've been offered a range of experiences loves football most, that's okay. And if a girl turns out to like pink and baking after being exposed to everything, that's fine too. Neither had to be challenged on that.

My eldest was super sporty, always chose trousers from being a toddler, and played football competitively from aged 7-21 (and has recently returned to it in her 30s). Her younger sister, despite having that role model, loved pink, glitter, cuddly toys and baking as a child.

You don't judge kids on their choices, you just offer them a range, as I did. Your SIL would really have annoyed me if she picks up on this stuff every single time.

35965a · 15/12/2023 16:17

Workway · 15/12/2023 16:14

I'd laugh them all off except example 3.

Example 3 would have me say 'ignore Aunty X - she's not the Mummy and she doesn't set the rules, now come get dressed'.

And I'd be saying it while staring at Aunty X because that was her just undermining you plain and simple.

Example 4 (and possibly example 1) I'd probably spin it back and - she's 3yrs old, she doesn't need dating advice, let her enjoy her childhood.

The other example wouldn't phase me. I'd just say - ooooh yeah maybe next time you can go with Daddy to the football.

I do see your point and I don't think SIl sounds fabulous. I think you sound pretty fair minded.

It's like if you put a 3yr old girl and 3yr old boy in a room with toys, but you sit there constantly saying to the girl - 'but you can play with the trucks you know' - it's still focusing on her gender. And for all these people saying how marvelous she is - it does make me wonder how saying to a 3yr old boy - you don't have to wear smart trousers you could wear this pretty pink dress instead.......would go down? and would these same people be saying how fabulous it was if he picked up a blusher brush? Or would they just laugh at him doing so without feeling the need to comment at all.

Sounds like SIL is needlessly 'othering' to me based on gender. Don't we all want to get to a place where gender isn't the first and foremost thing on people's mind. If your SIl doesn't want her niece to grow up with rigid gender definitions perhaps she should stop pointing them out at every opportunity and just let the child be a child?

This says it more eloquently than I did ^

Workway · 15/12/2023 16:16

The more into that post I wrote the more annoyed I got with the SIL 😂so maybe it would phase me!

Workway · 15/12/2023 16:14

I'd laugh them all off except example 3.

Example 3 would have me say 'ignore Aunty X - she's not the Mummy and she doesn't set the rules, now come get dressed'.

And I'd be saying it while staring at Aunty X because that was her just undermining you plain and simple.

Example 4 (and possibly example 1) I'd probably spin it back and - she's 3yrs old, she doesn't need dating advice, let her enjoy her childhood.

The other example wouldn't phase me. I'd just say - ooooh yeah maybe next time you can go with Daddy to the football.

I do see your point and I don't think SIl sounds fabulous. I think you sound pretty fair minded.

It's like if you put a 3yr old girl and 3yr old boy in a room with toys, but you sit there constantly saying to the girl - 'but you can play with the trucks you know' - it's still focusing on her gender. And for all these people saying how marvelous she is - it does make me wonder how saying to a 3yr old boy - you don't have to wear smart trousers you could wear this pretty pink dress instead.......would go down? and would these same people be saying how fabulous it was if he picked up a blusher brush? Or would they just laugh at him doing so without feeling the need to comment at all.

Sounds like SIL is needlessly 'othering' to me based on gender. Don't we all want to get to a place where gender isn't the first and foremost thing on people's mind. If your SIl doesn't want her niece to grow up with rigid gender definitions perhaps she should stop pointing them out at every opportunity and just let the child be a child?