Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

785 replies

nhd · 15/12/2023 15:00

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

OP posts:
Meowandthen · 15/12/2023 19:07

Wish44 · 15/12/2023 19:04

@Meowandthen it’s true I don’t know that.

but it sounds like she and you have a presumption that domestic activities are
somehow inferior to other jobs….

children need raising , food needs cooking and toilets need cleaning… how
about we value those things and give those who do them the credit they are
due?

You do seem to like wild assumptions. I said no such thing.

And there is far more to life than cleaning bathrooms. It has to be done but there is no need for anyone to get excited about it. Anyone can do it.

slithytoveisascientist · 15/12/2023 19:07

Gladrags1234 · 15/12/2023 19:00

Re the pretty message....there's also something to be said for building up a girl's confidence in how she looks. I was never confident and so I ended up looking for approval in some not great places, and got into some sticky situations as a result. I think there is compromise to be had here.
I also think the messages that SIL wants to share could happen quite comfortably in general conversation as this little girl grows up. Instead of undermining her mother, SIL could simply be a good listening ear. As of course, can you as mum, @nhd 💐

Yea but there are ways to do this without making it out of their control - people can't help being pretty or not

So - DD you look lovely, really smart and I love what you've chosen to wear - is less stereotypical, praises the child's choice AND looks in a way they can influence

It's a minefield but I really don't want my daughter to value herself for prettiness or deride herself for a lack of prettiness, so try not to mention it

I wouldn't have suggested wearing dirty clothes though as an alternative 😂

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 19:07

SouthLondonMum22 · 15/12/2023 19:05

Which makes you an exception. Generally, it involves a woman becoming financially dependent on a man. Lets not pretend it doesn't for the majority.

Of course you can still be a feminist, in a sexist society it would be almost impossible to always make the feminist choice.

Show quote history

I already said that, so you’re agreeing with me. And I haven’t spoken for any other woman. I said I was a SAHM and a feminist and you and another poster told me I was wrong.

I’m not wrong. You don’t get to tell me what I am and how I live: you don’t get to ‘out-feminist’ me, it’s pathetic.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 15/12/2023 19:06

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 18:58

I had my own money thanks, saved up for during my career. It’s not as uncommon as you might think.

Just because you can’t stretch your brain to it, doesn’t mean it’s not possible to be both. Come on now. 🙄

Show quote history

I think it’s pretty uncommon yes and even more uncommon for women who’ve taken time out to be able to slot back into their careers at the same level. Sad but true.

To pretend that lots of women are solely funding their time as a SAHM is just silly. As I keep saying, nothing wrong with being a SAHM but people seem to get very defensive about it.

MsRosley · 15/12/2023 19:06

There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling your daughter she looks pretty or your son that he looks handsome. If anything, not getting positive affirmations like this from parents/other significant adults makes it more likely that kids will grow up feeling insecure about their looks. Let's face it, who really takes offence when someone is kind enough to compliment how they look. The only time it matters is if girls get the message that looking nice is the most important thing to aspire to, which OP is not doing.

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 19:06

YaWeeFurryBastard · 15/12/2023 19:04

Again, nobody has said it’s inferior, just not very feminist. I think you’re projecting there.

Show quote history

Sure, sure 🙄

SouthLondonMum22 · 15/12/2023 19:05

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 19:00

Again, I had a very lucrative and successful career and had my own money. It was NY choice.

Wind your uneducated beaks in.
so judgemental about other women’s personal and independent decisions.

Maybe other women have relied solely on their partners money, but it’s entirely possible to be a SAHM and a feminist.

Show quote history

Which makes you an exception. Generally, it involves a woman becoming financially dependent on a man. Lets not pretend it doesn't for the majority.

Of course you can still be a feminist, in a sexist society it would be almost impossible to always make the feminist choice.

Original poster
nhd · 15/12/2023 19:05

@MrsAllsorts

Does your SIL ever were makeup?

Not really, in the 9 years I've known her she's worn make up 3-4 times max and very subtle, maybe some mascara and that's it.

Does she dress up or would she go out looking like a slob because appearance doesn't matter? Despite what she says, do her daily habits, clothes etc, match the convictions she spouts at YOUR daughter?
She doesn't exactly walk around in dirty clothes but she wouldn't dress up either. Although she does own clothes that have stains on them that won't wash out or rips but will continue wearing it, point out the stain / rip and say she will continue wearing the item because it's comfy. Which is her choice and I wouldn't comment on it, in the same way I'd prefer she didn't tell me how to dress.
Or she has said she will go on a date with a guy straight after going for a run in the park without coming home to change or will roll out of bed and not necessarily do much aside from clean her teeth and if he doesn't like that she's dressed in sporty clothes / looking flushed / no make up / she has bed hair then he's too superficial and it's his loss, she's not interested.

How did she attract your brother?
She's single, she's my SIL through being my husband's sister as opposed to my brother's wife.

OP posts:
slithytoveisascientist · 15/12/2023 19:05

@Naptrappedmummy not understanding your post 😂 when talking about dating that doesn't mean asexual and most people prob don't have to come out as asexual, they just don't bring a partner home.

But why reinforce boyfriend from the age of THREE? Why mention dating at all but if it must be mentioned then at least don't reinforce only the heterosexual option. How much hard does that make it for the DD if she is gay and knows her parents expect her to date boys?

And yes - comfortable is a great option - however the point i was trying to make that you're either choosing to miss or cant comprehend is - don't reinforce the requirement for girls to be pretty to go out. whereas 'clean' is apparently what OP meant plus its a pretty reasonable expectation

YaWeeFurryBastard · 15/12/2023 19:04

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 19:02

It’s literally a job. If you put your child in childcare, you pay for that care because it’s a persons job, but apparently staying off work to raise your child makes you an inferior woman to these eejits.

Show quote history

Again, nobody has said it’s inferior, just not very feminist. I think you’re projecting there.

Wish44 · 15/12/2023 19:04

@Meowandthen it’s true I don’t know that.

but it sounds like she and you have a presumption that domestic activities are
somehow inferior to other jobs….

children need raising , food needs cooking and toilets need cleaning… how
about we value those things and give those who do them the credit they are
due?

YaWeeFurryBastard · 15/12/2023 19:03

Wish44 · 15/12/2023 19:00

@YaWeeFurryBastard but the man is totally dependent on the woman to raise his kids while he works outside the home

Or he could use childcare like many working families, male and female?

Meowandthen · 15/12/2023 19:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Quite the reach there. And rather nasty.

saraclara · 15/12/2023 19:02

Seriously, I can't imagine my three year old granddaughter running to her football playing auntie to show her some baking that she's proud of, and my daughter choosing that moment to give her what is basically a lecture.

Fortunately my daughter the auntie leads by example by kicking a ball around with my DGD on other occasions, while celebrating my DGD's achievements in every area, with love.

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 19:02

Wish44 · 15/12/2023 19:00

@YaWeeFurryBastard but the man is totally dependent on the woman to raise his kids while he works outside the home

It’s literally a job. If you put your child in childcare, you pay for that care because it’s a persons job, but apparently staying off work to raise your child makes you an inferior woman to these eejits.

Meowandthen · 15/12/2023 19:01

Wish44 · 15/12/2023 18:20

I wonder if the the OP had a boy
would SIL make such comments?… so son is going to football with dad… would she say “oh have you thought you don’t have to go to football you could stay at home and bake?”

I doubt it! I think SIL is not
as enlightened as she thinks she is. In fact she is engaging in undermining a mother and activities that women have traditionally done and still do mostly.

You don’t know that. You are just guessing. And just because women were stuck with domestic chores for centuries, it doesn’t mean we have to keep doing them.

Hereforthebunfights · 15/12/2023 19:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

My guess is that you are a homophobic misogynist.

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 19:00

SouthLondonMum22 · 15/12/2023 18:57

Exactly.

Feminism is about equality and a SAHP, which is almost always the woman enables inequality.

Show quote history

Again, I had a very lucrative and successful career and had my own money. It was NY choice.

Wind your uneducated beaks in.
so judgemental about other women’s personal and independent decisions.

Maybe other women have relied solely on their partners money, but it’s entirely possible to be a SAHM and a feminist.

Wish44 · 15/12/2023 19:00

@YaWeeFurryBastard but the man is totally dependent on the woman to raise his kids while he works outside the home

Gladrags1234 · 15/12/2023 19:00

Re the pretty message....there's also something to be said for building up a girl's confidence in how she looks. I was never confident and so I ended up looking for approval in some not great places, and got into some sticky situations as a result. I think there is compromise to be had here.
I also think the messages that SIL wants to share could happen quite comfortably in general conversation as this little girl grows up. Instead of undermining her mother, SIL could simply be a good listening ear. As of course, can you as mum, @nhd 💐

pinkfun · 15/12/2023 18:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 15/12/2023 18:58

She’s three. Who she dates is years off and it’s not unreasonable to want a child in clean clothes.

SIL is mental.

JustGerroffMe · 15/12/2023 18:58

YaWeeFurryBastard · 15/12/2023 18:54

Pull the other one. Being wholly financially dependent on a man is not very feminist. Did your husband also take a turn at being a SAHP? Nothing wrong with being a SAHP whatsoever, but let’s not pretend that SAHMs are role models for feminism. Come on now.

Show quote history

I had my own money thanks, saved up for during my career. It’s not as uncommon as you might think.

Just because you can’t stretch your brain to it, doesn’t mean it’s not possible to be both. Come on now. 🙄

pinkfun · 15/12/2023 18:57

I just love how negative feminists are. L

SouthLondonMum22 · 15/12/2023 18:57

YaWeeFurryBastard · 15/12/2023 18:54

Pull the other one. Being wholly financially dependent on a man is not very feminist. Did your husband also take a turn at being a SAHP? Nothing wrong with being a SAHP whatsoever, but let’s not pretend that SAHMs are role models for feminism. Come on now.

Show quote history

Exactly.

Feminism is about equality and a SAHP, which is almost always the woman enables inequality.