Page 2 | To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

nhd · 2023-12-15T15:00:43+00:00

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3. DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful. Comments that she will make: Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!" Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football). Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head? Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

eastegg · 18/12/2023 10:31

VanityDiesHard · 18/12/2023 09:29

Exactly. Your daughter is leading by example, not just preaching. Big, huge difference. I think that posters on here were so enthused by the SIL's message that they ignored her delivery, which was very poor.

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This hits the nail on the head. I’m team saraclara.

saraclara · 18/12/2023 09:35

I think that posters on here were so enthused by the SIL's message that they ignored her delivery, which was very poor.

Yep.

VanityDiesHard · 18/12/2023 09:29

saraclara · 17/12/2023 22:44

I'm quite sane thanks. If my SIL wants to lead by example, great. But she doesn't get to undermine me, or ignore my child's achievement because on that day it happens to be in an area that SIL sees as feminine.

My eldest daughter has played football for decades. Captain of her university team, and still playing now. Her niece (barely four) goes to watch her matches and gets excited shouting for her auntie.

But DD doesn't for a moment criticise or question it when my granddaughter shows her the sparkly kiddie nail varnish she's wearing, she just admires it.
She demonstrates what it is to buck the trend, rather than raining on DGD's parade or making passive aggressive comments about her sisters parenting. And kicks a ball to DGD when they go in the garden.

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Exactly. Your daughter is leading by example, not just preaching. Big, huge difference. I think that posters on here were so enthused by the SIL's message that they ignored her delivery, which was very poor.

PolkaDotsLikeALadyBug · 18/12/2023 08:28

OMG your SIL is too much. your child is only 3! i'd be telling her to keep her comments to herself and let your daughter enjoy being a kid. too much woke-ism going on and i can't cope with these people that are constantly pushing their views. tell her to give it a rest and enjoy your DD's company

saraclara · 17/12/2023 22:44

Spirallingdownwards · 17/12/2023 21:13

OK so you're... bonkers. No any woman who let's a girl know they don't have to conform to some stereotype is doing just fine.

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I'm quite sane thanks. If my SIL wants to lead by example, great. But she doesn't get to undermine me, or ignore my child's achievement because on that day it happens to be in an area that SIL sees as feminine.

My eldest daughter has played football for decades. Captain of her university team, and still playing now. Her niece (barely four) goes to watch her matches and gets excited shouting for her auntie.

But DD doesn't for a moment criticise or question it when my granddaughter shows her the sparkly kiddie nail varnish she's wearing, she just admires it.
She demonstrates what it is to buck the trend, rather than raining on DGD's parade or making passive aggressive comments about her sisters parenting. And kicks a ball to DGD when they go in the garden.

Spirallingdownwards · 17/12/2023 21:13

saraclara · 17/12/2023 16:22

If it was OP's MIL preaching to the kid instead of praising her, and passive aggressively undermining OP 's ability to encourage her daughter to do anything she wants, you and just about everyone here would be telling OP she was absolutely right to be defensive. You know that.

I was passionate about my daughters not being pigeon holed into feminine choices, but if anyone in my family jumped in at the moments where I or either of the girls were doing something that could be said to be feminine, in order to 'put us right' damn right I'd have been defensive, too

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OK so you're... bonkers. No any woman who let's a girl know they don't have to conform to some stereotype is doing just fine.

poetryandwine · 17/12/2023 19:21

OP,

I also don’t know why you are getting such a hard time. It’s probably a mistake to make any assumptions about your DC’s sexual orientation but beyond that you sound pretty balanced.

I agree with PPs who say that you SIL was invalidating to your DD around the cookies, that the first response to child excited about making something is to share that excitement. Comments about alternative activities are secondary.

Your SIL seems to have a somewhat rough life. She may have some misperceptions about why. I think she does genuinely want a better life for your DD and I don’t think she is doing any harm. But her lack of respect for you (who studied Engineering, does she have any idea of how male dominated that is, of how un-girly your studies were?) is annoying and wrong.

Ilovecleaning · 17/12/2023 18:13

Spirallingdownwards · 17/12/2023 16:08

SIL isn't forcing her to do these things wither just reminding her she can choose to be her own person. Good on SIL. The fact yiu are so defensive suggests perhaps you do want her to be girly girly.

And I think you’re reading between the lines stuff that isn’t there 🤣

saraclara · 17/12/2023 16:22

Spirallingdownwards · 17/12/2023 16:08

SIL isn't forcing her to do these things wither just reminding her she can choose to be her own person. Good on SIL. The fact yiu are so defensive suggests perhaps you do want her to be girly girly.

If it was OP's MIL preaching to the kid instead of praising her, and passive aggressively undermining OP 's ability to encourage her daughter to do anything she wants, you and just about everyone here would be telling OP she was absolutely right to be defensive. You know that.

I was passionate about my daughters not being pigeon holed into feminine choices, but if anyone in my family jumped in at the moments where I or either of the girls were doing something that could be said to be feminine, in order to 'put us right' damn right I'd have been defensive, too

Spirallingdownwards · 17/12/2023 16:08

SIL isn't forcing her to do these things wither just reminding her she can choose to be her own person. Good on SIL. The fact yiu are so defensive suggests perhaps you do want her to be girly girly.

TreacleMines · 17/12/2023 16:02

CurlewKate · 17/12/2023 14:02

@saraclara "We do not raise women by declaring traditional female activities as lesser and male ones as superior."

I don't think anyone is declaring that. What some of us are declaring is that it should not be assumed that girls will do traditional female activities. Or that girls should automatically be concerned with their appearance and "prettiness".

Obviously not. But if they want to do those things that’s great, just as it’s great if they want to be a rugby player.

The sil would probably have a greater effect on the child’s development and thinking by just being a present role model for her.

What she is doing now is just irritating the child’s mum which makes it far more likely that she will distance her family from the sil or contradict her to the child.

GrannyRose15 · 17/12/2023 14:49

Tandora · 17/12/2023 02:08

definition of woke:

”aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)”

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Unfortunately you don’t get to define words that are in constant use. Meanings change. And in the age of SM they change very fast. You may think you know what woke means but it is not what many people mean when they use the word.

saraclara · 17/12/2023 14:18

CurlewKate · 17/12/2023 14:02

@saraclara "We do not raise women by declaring traditional female activities as lesser and male ones as superior."

I don't think anyone is declaring that. What some of us are declaring is that it should not be assumed that girls will do traditional female activities. Or that girls should automatically be concerned with their appearance and "prettiness".

People on here might not, but the SIL seems to be. Again, why did she not respond to the baking with the sort of praise and acknowledgement of her niece's efforts that most people would offer an excited and proud 3 year old? Why instead, tell her that she didn't have to do that, she could go to football instead? Come on now, that's weird and it definitely implies that baking is somehow lesser or lacking in something.

VanityDiesHard · 17/12/2023 14:05

CurlewKate · 17/12/2023 14:02

@saraclara "We do not raise women by declaring traditional female activities as lesser and male ones as superior."

I don't think anyone is declaring that. What some of us are declaring is that it should not be assumed that girls will do traditional female activities. Or that girls should automatically be concerned with their appearance and "prettiness".

SIL was declaring that by waving away her niece's cookies and telling her all about football.

CurlewKate · 17/12/2023 14:02

@saraclara "We do not raise women by declaring traditional female activities as lesser and male ones as superior."

I don't think anyone is declaring that. What some of us are declaring is that it should not be assumed that girls will do traditional female activities. Or that girls should automatically be concerned with their appearance and "prettiness".

Ilovecleaning · 17/12/2023 13:54

AnnieSnap · 17/12/2023 12:09

Why not just have a calm, grown-up conversation when the child is not around? 🤷‍♀️

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Yes, that’s a good idea, too.

saraclara · 17/12/2023 13:38

We do not raise women by declaring traditional female activities as lesser and male ones as superior. We raise women by insisting ALL activities are for ALL people and taking pride in our achievements, be that tasty cookies or playing centre forward.

Amen x 100.

saraclara · 17/12/2023 13:37

CurlewKate · 17/12/2023 09:01

Well, if everyone is so sure that the OP is giving her dd good messages about gender roles and stereotypes already, there's nothing wrong with the SIL reinforcing them, is there?

Again, it's not about her reinforcing them, it's about how and when. There's a passive aggressiveness to the way she's doing it at the moment, and she's not putting the child immediate emotional needs first.

She should just say "wow, those biscuits look great! Well done you!"

AnnieSnap · 17/12/2023 12:09

Ilovecleaning · 17/12/2023 08:48

Nothing wrong with SIL messages but it is not her place to keep making comments. Irritating. She is sticking her oar in.
What would annoy me in your place is her assumption that you are not aware of these things and you heed her to point them out. also annoying because it’s provocative passive-aggressive to make comments to your DD when SIL is actually talking to you.
Next time say something like “I do KNOW these things, SIL - (give a little laugh) ‘You don’t have to keep telling me as if I don’t know!’ Try to keep it light.
IMO she should butt out.

Why not just have a calm, grown-up conversation when the child is not around? 🤷‍♀️

SoMuchOfEverything · 17/12/2023 11:27

ClairDeLaLune · 17/12/2023 00:12

Good for your SIL. She sounds awesome. She’s teaching your DD that she can be whoever she wants to be and she doesn’t have to change herself to please people. It’s great that she’s empowering her.

She can be whoever she wants to be and doesn't have to please anyone... except if she wants to please her aunt, then she should change herself and stop liking makeup and baking and should start liking (watching other people play) football?

She hasn't told her she can be whoever she wants to be at all! SIL is telling her that her preferences are not good enough.

TreacleMines · 17/12/2023 10:42

2mummies1baby · 17/12/2023 05:36

What I find very unfeminist is the assumption that traditionally male activities (e.g. football) are somehow better or more worthy than traditionally female activities (e.g. baking). Especially ridiculous seeing as you can very easily go through life without being able to play football, whereas you'd struggle to get through life without being able to cook!

Also, how ridiculous that your SIL thinks playing with a toy kitchen will teach your daughter to cook for a man rather than to cook for, perhaps, herself?!

I always think my niece is a perfect example of a feminist upbringing- she loves Disney films and sparkly skirts, and also loves dinosaurs and is an absolute daredevil. She likes what she likes, with no thought towards whether it is traditionally masculine or feminine.

And for all those attacking the OP for being a SAHM- would you do the same if her husband was a SAHD? I'm a SAHM with a wife who works, so am I a problem too?

Exactly this.

We do not raise women by declaring traditional female activities as lesser and male ones as superior. We raise women by insisting ALL activities are for ALL people and taking pride in our achievements, be that tasty cookies or playing centre forward.

SIL needs to celebrate the child for who she is, and present an alternative narrative to the ‘girls are X, boys are Y’ by living it and being open if asked- there is little practical point in lecturing a 3 year old and putting her mums back up.

I am auntie to a lot of girls, and I’m close and spend a lot of time with them all. Some come over and want me to do their nails and borrow my expensive makeup, some come to me for reassurance that they don’t have to remove any body hair if they don’t want to, and whether digital design or separate science GCSEs are better for a future in engineering.

I have told all of them they are funny, clever, beautiful, sarcastic, kind, cutting, stylish etc at different points- because they are entire people who are all of these things in different amounts at different times.

VanityDiesHard · 17/12/2023 10:36

2mummies1baby · 17/12/2023 05:36

What I find very unfeminist is the assumption that traditionally male activities (e.g. football) are somehow better or more worthy than traditionally female activities (e.g. baking). Especially ridiculous seeing as you can very easily go through life without being able to play football, whereas you'd struggle to get through life without being able to cook!

Also, how ridiculous that your SIL thinks playing with a toy kitchen will teach your daughter to cook for a man rather than to cook for, perhaps, herself?!

I always think my niece is a perfect example of a feminist upbringing- she loves Disney films and sparkly skirts, and also loves dinosaurs and is an absolute daredevil. She likes what she likes, with no thought towards whether it is traditionally masculine or feminine.

And for all those attacking the OP for being a SAHM- would you do the same if her husband was a SAHD? I'm a SAHM with a wife who works, so am I a problem too?

OMG thank you!!! This is exactly what I wanted to say but you said it a great deal better.

T1Dmama · 17/12/2023 10:33

Indeedindeed24 · 15/12/2023 15:36

The dating girls thing is fine as I think children shouldn't see being gay as anything out of the ordinary.

I hate the baking comment though, it's almost shaming her and is confusing. SIL should crack on and take her to a football match if she wants but shouldn't be making the child feel bad for wanting to stay home and bake.

The party thing would massively piss me off and is totally overstepping boundaries- it's not for auntie to decide what a 3 year old wears and I'd be having a word about that as it's undermining your parenting.

Totally agree with this.

have responses ready…. I’d have to laugh and say ‘oh Aunty Helen, we can’t go to a party wearing 3 day old dirty pyjamas !’ Then I’d look at her and make it very clear she did not need to respond!!

I’d then either myself or get DH to speak to her quietly saying that she over stepped!

I’d also say ‘Yes she can watch football with Daddy… or with mummy… or she can bake with mummy, or with Daddy!….

She doesn’t need to be told everything at 3!! Once she starts school the questions about same sex relationships will soon follow… I got the ‘can 2 men have children/can 2 women have children?!’ Questions soon after starting school….

At seniors they’re all confused… too quick to announce they’re gay/bI/non binary/trans etc….. in fact my DD even has a furry in her class…. I mean should we be telling our kids at 3 that they may even choose to be a cat when they’re older!

I wouldn’t discuss with your SIL schools etc or your reasons for looking at them, this is your DD, and frankly those discussions are between you and your DH. I really wouldn’t stress about seniors yet, you’ve 2 other schools to apply for and get into first!…. Whether your DD goes to an all girls or mixed school will very much depend on who she becomes in year 5 and 6…
In the mean time I would love to know if your SIL goes out wearing dirty 3 day old clothes, if she greys naturally or dyes it… shaves her armpits, plucks eye brows, lets her facial hair grow out, and doesn’t bother with perfumes or deodorants?!? Or does she dare to take pride in her appearance? Dare I say even look pretty or attractive??

Mammajay · 17/12/2023 10:14

You sound like a balanced aware mum.i would find her patronising and sanctimonious.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 17/12/2023 09:46

CurlewKate · 17/12/2023 09:01

Well, if everyone is so sure that the OP is giving her dd good messages about gender roles and stereotypes already, there's nothing wrong with the SIL reinforcing them, is there?

There is. It's arrogant.