To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

Your SIL sounds like she's deliberately undermining your parenting. FWIW I also made similar comments to my girls and it was lucky as my eldest is in a same sex marriage and she knows I fully support her choice. They both also know that looks, appearance, clothing are unimportant. However, it sounds to me like you're doing a great job with your DD and SIL is trying to have more of an influence than she needs to, at a very early age and in a way that is judgemental of your own ability to parent your daughter.

Mumsnet was the wrong place to post this, Op.

I think the first one really needed to be said to you, because I don’t think it is good that you have automatically assumed your daughter will date boys, you need to be more open minded.

The other examples might be construed as interfering, although personally I thought provided a good balance with your more appearance, girly focus.

I am baffled as to how you could possibly think any of those examples are potentially damaging. I would love to hear your explanation for that and apologies if you have already explained, I am still working my way through your replies.

You're not annoying at all. And words are very important to me too.

I think it's really tough for girls growing up in such a looks-oriented society, and whatever reassurance and confidence we can instil in our daughters as a bulwark against all the insecurity to come is a gift we should never shrink from giving. It's slightly less important in sons, because society isn't so hard on them looks-wise, but I still tell mine they look handsome, especially when they've clearly made an effort.

Hell, we even tell old women they look gorgeous when they've had their hair done or whatever. It's a kindness, something nice we do for people. Everyone loves to feel they're presenting their best face to the world, and to have other people's appreciation reflected back to them.

So when your daughter was three and ran to you with something that she'd made and was proud of, but was a traditionally feminine skill, or pink or something, instead of praising her, you told her that she didn't need to do that, she could have gone and played football instead? Really?

I'm the niece in this situation. My mother was a dreadful role model for her daughters. Her view was that girls should just be there to be pretty. Being pretty, feminine and ladylike were prized above any other way.
Luckily I had an aunt like this one. One who taught me that being pretty was not needed and it was better to be confident, clever and outspoken.
My mother hated her SIL and constantly reminded her that she wasn't a proper women as she didn't have children. My fab aunt just shrugged it off and made sure my sisters and I knew she was always there, even after my mother banned us from seeing her and banned her from our house.

We used to sneak out to see her because she was interesting and talked about things like university and being independent. She open our eyes to a whole different world.

Today my sisters and I all work in good careers. My youngest sister has children, but two of us don't. We are all financially independent and hold strong feminist views.

OP I don't know what upbringing you are giving your daughter and I don't really care, but surely it's better to have girls grow up surrounded by different women leading different lives and being bold and confident in their choices. After all, as women like me are told often enough by mothers, does t it take a village?

But the OP SiL isn't doing that. So not the same

@MsRosley im going to be really annoying now

Beautiful is a word I LOVE

It's more than pretty

More than looks

It's the whole package and doesn't need clothes or make up or trappings and I think it's a delightful compliment

Words are very important to me obv 😂

Feminism is about supporting other women’s choices. It is about equality of opportunity which means women can choose to stay home to raise children. Doesn’t mean they are a doormat.

I’d hate it but I support the choice.

Certainly a SAHM can be a feminist, although I don’t think many are.

An SAHM who could not support herself and her DC if required, an SAHM without equal access to the family money - I am hard pressed to call these women feminists, although perhaps I am missing something. But a parent who has chosen to spend some time intensely involved with childrearing and taking charge of the home for the benefit of all, with the funds to do this right and her partner’s respect, is in a powerful position. She can model feminism for her DC

It wouldn’t be my choice but I respect it. It seems pretty rare.

@Naptrappedmummy not sure why you are being so aggressive or targeting me but I'll reply one more time

I know asexual exists, I was referring to the outdated process of 'coming out' usually because one is dating or interested in dating. In terms of sexual orientation- which does not necessarily mean asexual.

it's also one thing to talk about dating and not assume one sex over another.

It's another to go through the entire acronym. They were specifically talking about dating being a distraction which rules out being asexual surely?

And it was clear OP assumed DD will date boys - a damaging assumption that she doesn't need to teach her daughter.

And yes - the way OP used pretty as a persuasive technique i disagree with, and it isn't a compliment I like. That's allowed just as much as you are allowed to use it - the difference is I don't feel defensive over my choice, unlike you.

I don't disagree exactly but I remember someone - Chekhov? - writing something about plain women only get very specific compliments, like 'you have lovely eyes' or 'you have great hair'. I remember when I told my (incredibly feminist, tom-boyish) daughter how beautiful she was and her whole face lit up with pleasure and reassurance. (My mother never did that for me. I grew up thinking I wasn't pretty enough, and it did untold damage to me emotionally and in relationships.)

Well, as I have said all along, it was a feminist choice for ME. End of. You said it wasn’t possible, I said it was in my case and you have, for some reason, continued to tell me I am wrong.

And you can disagree, but as I said it’s not as uncommon as you’d think.

Then I trust you compliment her for other things. Ones not related to appearance.

The issue is the expectation that girls have to be pretty to get approval. There needs to be positive comments on behaviour, achievements, attitude etc too as a balance.

I agree with SIL on 1 and 2. It's important to point out that a person can be either straight or gay and have different interests.
No. 3 I disagree with because it's not about looking pretty, it's about dressing appropriately. If you're going to a formal event you have to dress formally, whether that's dresses or trousers and this is at almost every age so she's wrong about going out in PJs.
You're wrong about the other stuff.

Jesus, obviously touched a nerve. I haven’t said you’re not a feminist, I don’t know you! I said being a SAHM is not a very feminist thing to do, which it isn’t. And I respectfully disagree, I think it’s highly unusual to self fund as a SAHM.

This is how I talk to my daughters...I love your sister in law!

I agree 100%. Your DD will hear many things from many people but at the end of the day she will make her own way. It’s good for her to get varying perspectives.

Well it is a feminist choice for me.

Sorry to quote you again!

I did also get the impression from what OP said that she implied the only reason to get changed was to 'look so pretty' - that was the motivation.

Not to look smart or wear clothes she had chosen or to meet a dress code for event. The only reason was prettiness. OP has since clarified she meant clean so perhaps she will think more deeply about what she wants to communicate to her daughter

I said that it isn't a feminist choice, I didn't say anything at all about if it makes the actual person a feminist. You got defensive and made that assumption.

I broadly agree with SIL's sentiments, but not the way she's expressing them. She sounds like an interfering, preachy, pain in the arse.

Somebody needs to move with the times yes people absolutely come out as asexual these days, what do you think LGBTQIA stands for?

If you read the post the boyfriend comment was made to the SIL, not the child.

As for point 3, no she isn’t going to have a complex from her mum using the word pretty flippantly now and then. I tell my DD she looks pretty all the time, and I’m sure everyone will disapprove of that. She however loves a compliment.

May seem daft but I do try to use more neutral compliments OR more specific compliments to reference my kids looks

Eg you look lovely
So grown up
Really smart
Love how you've done your hair
Outfit is amazing

Less about 'looks' iyswim but still about how they have chosen to look?

Stop twisting my words. I haven’t pretended anything, I said I was a SAHM and a feminist. You said I wasn’t because SAHM mums rely on their partners money. I said I didn’t and it was as uncommon as you think.

People get defensive because of your petty little comments about how we can’t be feminists. You don’t own feminism and you have no rights over it. Dont tell me what I can and can’t be.