To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

She sounds horrendous and actually I don't think she sounds very nice either, no need to say any of this shit to a child just let her be little.

Absolutely.

I work in education where many of us really value SAHP. We understand why a parent may not be thrilled at the prospect of returning to work when their children are in the early years- for many reasons but mainly because we know how crucial this period is. I always chuckle when I see the same posters on here arguing we should return to work in the name of feminism. If I could have afforded it, I’d happily not fit their idea of what makes a feminist if I felt it was best for my children, me and my family/partner.

Nobody ever mentions extended breastfeeding either. I didn’t do this but I have the empathy to understand some women really care about this and going back to the rat race is not really conducive to producing breast milk. Not everyone has a cushty working from home job where they can pump all day. Every single teaching friend who breastfed packed it in, often unwillingly, shortly after returning to work, as did I. Because pumping while marking or planning lessons or, if more senior, being on duty in the canteen, doesn’t help with oxytocin and producing breast milk unsurprisingly. I was told to watch videos of my baby to help with pumping. Oh how I laughed when I thought of my working day and how on Earth I’d squeeze this in too.

That’s all I’m going to say as I’m being a hypocrite by being annoyed when reading a thread that’s not about being a SAHM becoming about them. So I’m sorry to be part of this hijacking OP.

Your SIL sounds annoying but I agree with her in principle. I’d have to say something, starting with undermining you trying to get your daughter dressed appropriately to go out. I also don’t think it’s age appropriate and we can impart this messaging throughout a childhood/adolescence which I’d also explain. As for the pretty comments, surely we can call our daughters pretty but also strong, brave and other qualities often attributed to boys? Why so polarised on this forum all the time? I tell my DD she’s beautiful most days. If that also makes me not fit in with someone’s feminism so be it. I also used the word pretty when she was much younger because of her limited vocabulary. As she grew up, this was accompanied by age appropriate conversations about beauty being unimportant compared to our kindness or hard work etc etc. I actually think it could be damaging to not ever tell a child they’re beautiful. I really disagree with parents who make this decision.

Boohoo for you.

I wouldn’t let you near my family either.

SIL is controlling and jealous. All of this is a covert narcissistic act to undermine you and your values. She sounds insufferable. Reduce contact and don't let her fuck with your child's precious mind.

I would say any message is annoying if it goes on too much

In a way it is saying whatever the child doing is wrong, same way being over the top on healthy eating can create food issues

Or pushing kids too hard in learning an instrument

Balance is healthy

Excellent post

Your SIL clearly means well, but the comment about what your DD should wear did undermine your parenting. Ultimately, you and your DH are the parents and will bring up your DD as you see fit, with your SIL as part of an her extended family.

If your SIL wants to parent a child, she could always become a parent herself… and you could express your opinions on her child’s activities, clothing, etc. !

Oh, my DD (18) went through an obsessed with dresses/sparkly things phase around 3 (nothing to do with my clothing choices) and guess what…she’s now studying engineering. 🤣

She sounds painful. So you want to dress your daughter nicely for special occasions! I have sons - as teenagers I encouraged them to shave and dress a bit more formally for special occasions. I even took them to a dermatologist rather than leaving them with authentic pustules. Was I doing it to oppress them and put them in thrall to the wishes of women? My sons would prefer cooking to football too and I didn't feel obliged to herd them out of the kitchen and onto a muddy field.

She over stepped when she said your DD could go out in a mucky vest and PJ pants. The girl is 3, you buy her clothes. If you want to buy her pretty dresses and she's happy wearing them, then it's got nothing to do with anybody else!

Indeed. As if it isn’t bad enough that women are held responsible when men are violent (what did his mother do wrong?), when they abuse children (how could his wife not have known?), when we are raped (why were you drunk? Why did you wear that skirt?), when we are underpaid (you’ll only go off to have babies), for the lack of investment in climate change (all those terrible terrible sanitary things ruining the environment)…

Now we are being held responsible for structural inequalities if we decide to stay at home with our babies for a bit. Why oh why do women have to be responsible for every ill in the world?

Why should we have to change our behaviour yet again, and go back to work when it doesn’t suit us, just because men are sexist wankers?!

Yeah, no. Absolutely the fuck not. I would have fully shut this crap down the moment she tried to control and manipulate my daughter’s interests and behaviour. Like fuck would I let her make my daughter feel like she was wrong for liking dresses or baking or whatever. And she wouldn’t dare to undermine me about wearing dirty pyjamas in public either because she would have been put in her place at the first sign of overstepping.

I consider this garbage a form of misogyny. It is no better than disparaging women for going into STEM or pursuing graduate degrees or whatever. Women can choose to like and do whatever they want, whether it be makeup or working on cars. If she wants to shape and manipulate a child so badly she can have her own. And I say this as a woman who was raised in a family where my intellect and academic achievements trumped everything, who has four advanced degrees but was never allowed to just be a girl or a woman because that was subtly less-than. Who was made to feel as if things like fashion were beneath me and that I couldn’t “lower myself” to be interested in them. Don’t allow this woman to do that to her.

I think you should have a word with her, but also that you should stop any kind of sleep overs/babysitting or anything else that lets her be alone with your daughter. I just wouldn’t trust her to be honest.

Somewhat heteronormative.

I wonder what problematic gender stereotypes my wife and I are enforcing… she does wear trousers more often than me.

You've missed my point entirely.

OP is highly unlikely to be bringing up her child with traditional gender expectations when she herself bucked the trend to such a degree. So I don't see why her SIL and so many posters on this thread think that she needs her sister to show her the way.

Again, OP has an engineering degree

a three year old doesn’t know about having an engineering degree. It’s not like she’s witnessing mum doing engineering. It’s not going to help countering any gender conditioning at all.

I actually agree with some of that. Though I think everyone should be able to have more flexible work where available because we need to be saying that childcare is the responsibility of both parents and both parents need to be considering flexible work where available, not just women. This would also help with equality in the workplace.

I'd also give fathers a longer paternity leave because 2 weeks isn't enough.

This 🩷

I'm on the fence on this one!

I don't think your SILs views are extreme at all. However, I don't think we need to worry too much about these issues with a 3 year old. Baking, make up etc - she probably sees as fun - I remember I did as a young child - loved watching my mum do her make-up and getting dressed up. And as an adult in no way feel like I need to put make up on for my husband, to look pretty etc...I do it because I enjoy it!

However, it doesn't seem like you really want to listen to any other views, as you seem to have an answer to all of the replies you've been given by posters who agree with SIL. But, if you're not happy with SILs comments, just tell her in a nice way, I'm sure she'll understand.

Do you know what's also sexist ... Women having to give birth and then returning to work because SMP isn't cutting it.

Why can't we fight for women having more flexible work where available. Or women being able to pay into a non-taxable saving ISA prior to going on maternity leave. Maybe even longer maternity leave? ... I'm sure there are smarter people who can think of ways to make life easier for women. Making me do what a man wants to do isn't helpful and it's not equality.

I'm not saying women should or shouldn't work. I am saying that women should have the choice and that it shouldn't be hard for women to return to work.

I'm going to stop now as this thread is getting derailed.

Would you say the same if SIL was a MIL?

Me too

She sounds great. Think of it as a positive that your DD has such an open minded and supportive auntie. Just let her crack on and you do your thing.

Of course it's problematic. traditional gender roles are largely based on sexism and inequality.

Just because some couples may prefer it, it doesn't make any of the issues non existent.

But I’ve noticed that you keep reinforcing how it’s problematic with regards to gender roles, and inequality etc, as though it always has to be a bad choice. Some couples may prefer a traditional set up, if it suits their family well. Yes, their careers may be paused, but this isn’t an issue, if women would prefer to do the childcare in that time. It gives them the opportunity to do childcare, without the additional stress of work.

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that it promotes harmful stereotypes that women = childcare/cook/cleaner and men = provider with ''big job'' when equality would promote men and women doing both.

I'm saying that it promotes inequality because someone relying on someone else financially can never be equality.

I'm saying that childcare should be valued by both males and females alike.

Exactly this! ...

I'm sorry but what you seem to be saying here is men and the patriarchy have decided what work counts as work and is valued.