To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

Indeed. It might warp her permanently.

Perish the thought that a child be exposed to feminist concepts!

I would be rather irritated by her comments too. I think she is making assumptions that you are forcing gender stereotypes onto her when it sounds like she enjoys doing stereotypically girly things. There's nothing wrong with being "girly". Also the make up thing, it's like face painting it's fun. I spent hours doing it as a child and it wasn't to attract boys. Make up isn't always about attracting men I think half the time they don't even notice what is on our faces! Maybe she needs a different perspective on that too.

I’m with her sister too but not the way shes gone about it. I don’t think it has to be one or the other.

I find it dismaying: the thought that a mother would never tell their daughter she’s pretty, especially if she didn’t think so. In fact, I think if society doesn’t think it say so, it’d be me who does as their mother. But each to their own.

It is, actually. Especially the make up they do for fashion shows (or Goths when they go out to Goth clubs, you try drawing a spider web with eyeliner, and try and make it look good.)

I thought we'd got past denigrating things that are traditionally 'feminine'. Would the SIL be so upset if OP had a boy who wanted to wear make up and dresses? I doubt it.

My mum never wore skirts or dresses when I was growing up, and rarely wore makeup, I grew up to be the complete opposite! I blame my love of female fronted metal bands and Goth fashion. I've also grown up to be a radical feminist.

SIL is massively overstepping and needs to rein it in. I'd find that irritating. I'm fine with breaking down sex stereotypes, while recognising that people are going to fit into those stereotypes.

I bet their parents roll their eyes at you and laugh at you behind your back. I would.

No.

But I am with the OP’s SIL.

Would you not tell your daughter she’s pretty, if you didn’t think so?

Well, maybe she wasn’t pretty? Lots of people aren’t.

I have a friend who was never told she was pretty as a girl. It’s really affected her.

She sounds beyond tedious. Using everything you and your DD do to make a point. But far from being feminist, it just comes across as a put down and your DD will become wise to it sooner or later.

I’d call her out; especially for things that involve her brother. Eg example 2, you could have said, Actually Dave didn’t invite her!’ Who takes a 3 year old to a football match anyway? They’d be bored stiff!

What a horribly misogynistic comment.

But surely this is a result of social stereotyping. Why do you need to be told you are pretty to have self-esteem rather than because someone compliments you on sonething well done, or because you achieved something or because you are your own person or you have done something good for others? So what if you are 'plain'? Chekhov was born 2 centuries ago!'I never tell my boys they are ' pretty' just off the bat for no reason. I tell them they have done well at things, and that I am proud of them. Its not difficult to do with boys because we are not conditioned to think their looks are the most important thing about them. Even if you are ' plain', you have worth as a person. It goes without saying for men. The same should apply to women. Self-esteem and confidence should not depend on someone telling you that you are pretty.

This is a very fair point. Intelligence is no more an indicator of decency and good character than beauty. Nor is it a chosen behaviour worthy of praise. Either be consistent in reserving positive comments to things within the child's control, or don't. A child of below average Intelligence does not need to hear brains extolled as a virtue.

This thread is so interesting and I agree with PPs that it is all about balance. I realise I grew up in a family where 'girl' things were often belittled, similar to what @WhichEllie described. Women's contribution to society is incredibly undervalued and lots of people seem to think that feminism is about women rejecting anything seen as typically for / by women in favour of the 'important men stuff'. Childcare, unpaid care, household chores including things like baking are all hugely important things which society places very little value on. Surely the answer is to start recognising how important these things are and evening things up so they don't mainly fall to women. This would also help as we all know that as soon as a man does something it becomes more valued.

To take the football example, I understand your SIL thinks she is doing great feminism by saying your daughter can go to the match too but perhaps, if she must say something, she would be better encouraging Dad to stay home and bake?

I have to admit I would find at least some of this irritating; my sister continues to encourage my kids into STEM (fine with me if they do go this way, although she is not actually happy in this career) because what a disaster it would be if they followed my example as a charity CEO in a female dominated field. I just work with a bunch of wimmin helping mainly wimmin so how useful can that really be?!

OP, you describe your sister as a feminist. But not yourself. You don't consider yourself as one? Why? Is it because you think being a feminist is not good?

Shouldn't we all be feminists... being a woman?

Wow, did you just dismiss an entire minority? Saying they are all lying, that there is no possibility they can be queer, that they all MUST be straights who are lying to get street cred? You are worse than the vile queerphobes who beat up those they suspect as queer.

It’s one extreme to the other, from telling girls they can play football and cars your DD has still chosen to bake as THAT IS HER CHOICE! And yet apparently she’s isn’t allowed to make that choice any more, she should be pushed to go to the football, she’s isn’t allowed to choose a dress etc. it’s just as bad as goes choices being taken away forcing them to be sahp etc. and sil constantly making undermining digs at any comment you make as the omelet asking yourself child to get dressed is totally inappropriate

its interesting how divisive this is. Some posters are deeply angry at the sil’s messages to the child (taking the pj situation out. Others deeply supportive of little girls getting these Messages.

Why are people redefining feminism to suit their narrative? Feminism is ensuring women have equality, politically, socially and economically.

I can see why it would be very annoying thing and well the football thing is not appropriate. Yes your daughter can play football but going with daddy to the football probably wouldn’t have been young child appropriate and giving her the idea that she can go is wrong.
and yes she doesn’t need to dress/look pretty for anyone but that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t have to have her hair brushed/have a complete outfit that is warm enough etc.

You are a case study of one. It’s the biggest reason that the gender pay gap is so wide, so whether it applies to you an an individual is not the issue.

I like her

I agree - we need to stop being so judgmental about other women’s choices.

Team SIL here!!

Make up is a 'form of art' 😂😂😂 thank fuck for her auntie

Very very very judgemental, imagine being this nasty about other women.