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Original poster

To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

785 replies

nhd · 15/12/2023 15:00

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

OP posts:
TornIntoPieces · 16/12/2023 13:22

trickortrickier · 15/12/2023 15:08

Well, I love your SIL and so does your daughter ❤️

^^ this

I agree with the messages but yes she does sound overzealous in the delivery.

I'm like this but my sister is a revert Muslim, some of our views clash. It's good for DD to see different lifestyles within reason and know that both are ok as long as you are safe/loved/respected, and equal - those are my bottom lines.

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 13:04

"Feminism is about giving women choice."

No it isn't. It's about understanding societal pressures and stereotyping and having the tools to decide. And it's never too young to start gaining those tools. SIL might be a bit over enthusiastic, but better that than reinforcing the stereotype which she is being bombarded with from all sides. Including from her mother!

Original poster
nhd · 16/12/2023 12:58

@Mirabai so she shouldn't be allowed to conform to gender stereotypes, if that's what she enjoys, just because it's seen as stereotypically girly and she absolutely must defy those stereotypes?

OP posts:
Mirabai · 16/12/2023 12:44

nhd · 16/12/2023 12:23

Okay so imagine that the post was about my DS who was showing his baking creation to his aunty only for her to dismiss it and suggest he goes to football with Daddy. Is that okay? Or is it undermining his interests? Why should it be different just because she's a girl? Feminism, equality, ... no?

Or on the other hand imagine if she'd gone to football and told aunty, who responded with "you know, you could just stay home and bake?" but that's so 1950s, how dare she dismiss football as a hobby, let the niece enjoy what she enioys... or is it because traditionally girly hobbies are worse and should be seen as less?

Show quote history

That’s a false equivalence then issue is about conforming vs no conforming to gender stereotyping not merely alternatives.

The equiv would be ds going to footie with daddy and SIL saying he could bake with mummy if he wanted to. That’s fine.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 12:27

nhd · 16/12/2023 12:23

Okay so imagine that the post was about my DS who was showing his baking creation to his aunty only for her to dismiss it and suggest he goes to football with Daddy. Is that okay? Or is it undermining his interests? Why should it be different just because she's a girl? Feminism, equality, ... no?

Or on the other hand imagine if she'd gone to football and told aunty, who responded with "you know, you could just stay home and bake?" but that's so 1950s, how dare she dismiss football as a hobby, let the niece enjoy what she enioys... or is it because traditionally girly hobbies are worse and should be seen as less?

Show quote history

I completely agree with you. You've been getting a tough time on this thread because people haven't really thought the issue through properly. They just agree with your SIL without realising the full implications of her words.

Original poster
nhd · 16/12/2023 12:23

MissBuffyAnneSummers · 16/12/2023 11:34

@VanityDiesHard

I think that's just your interpretation / spin on it but it's certainly not reflected in the wording shared by the OP.

Okay so imagine that the post was about my DS who was showing his baking creation to his aunty only for her to dismiss it and suggest he goes to football with Daddy. Is that okay? Or is it undermining his interests? Why should it be different just because she's a girl? Feminism, equality, ... no?

Or on the other hand imagine if she'd gone to football and told aunty, who responded with "you know, you could just stay home and bake?" but that's so 1950s, how dare she dismiss football as a hobby, let the niece enjoy what she enioys... or is it because traditionally girly hobbies are worse and should be seen as less?

OP posts:
Pickledprawn · 16/12/2023 12:21

@VanityDiesHard people dismiss make up as being an art because it's a stereotypically female thing to do so it is laughed at as being silly and frivolous (like many female things). Of course it's an art not everyone can do it well it takes skill to create beautiful make up.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 12:02

Mischance · 16/12/2023 12:00

Feminism is about giving women choice. You have made your choice to be a SAHM; just as your DD has about what she likes to do. She knows football is there, she knows she could go but she chooses to bake. She is a true feminist making her own choices. Good on her!

And tell your SIL to butt out!

This 10000%.

Mischance · 16/12/2023 12:00

Feminism is about giving women choice. You have made your choice to be a SAHM; just as your DD has about what she likes to do. She knows football is there, she knows she could go but she chooses to bake. She is a true feminist making her own choices. Good on her!

And tell your SIL to butt out!

MrsSkylerWhite · 16/12/2023 11:59

Since when has baking been a girls’ activity. Our grandson loves to bake.

MrsCarson · 16/12/2023 11:57

SIL would be getting on my nerves with the constant you don't have to do.....
You cross each bridge as you some to it.
If she expresses a feeling you got with that, but to constantly bombard the child would get very overbearing.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 11:54

SouthLondonMum22 · 16/12/2023 00:05

It's an issue because there should be no such thing as ''women's work'' and ''man's work''.

Show quote history

Hold up, if there is no such thing as 'man's work' and 'women's work' then why is it unfeminist to be a SAHM? It is just work? I don't think your points add up at all.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 11:42

MissBuffyAnneSummers · 16/12/2023 11:34

@VanityDiesHard

I think that's just your interpretation / spin on it but it's certainly not reflected in the wording shared by the OP.

'Just because you're a girl doesn't mean you have to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy'.
I'm sorry, but in what way does that NOT imply that baking is the inferior option, that girls get as a consolation prize, instead of getting to enjoy the almighty football?! There is something so dismissive about the wording 'stay home and bake' as if baking is a silly little hobby instead of an art form. And what is worse is that the little girl was proudly showing off her creation to her aunt, only to have it waved and away and dismissed because watching people running around after a ball is so much better. It makes me laugh how regressive some 'feminist' points of view really are.

MissBuffyAnneSummers · 16/12/2023 11:34

@VanityDiesHard

I think that's just your interpretation / spin on it but it's certainly not reflected in the wording shared by the OP.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 11:23

MissBuffyAnneSummers · 16/12/2023 11:20

@VanityDiesHard

What is 'feminist' about 'baking is lame and for girls, so girls should play football whether they like it or not

Except that is not what SIL said.

Maybe not in so many words, but it was strongly implied.

MissBuffyAnneSummers · 16/12/2023 11:20

@VanityDiesHard

What is 'feminist' about 'baking is lame and for girls, so girls should play football whether they like it or not

Except that is not what SIL said.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 11:13

SweetFemaleAttitude · 16/12/2023 05:00

Team SIL here!!

Make up is a 'form of art' 😂😂😂 thank fuck for her auntie

Except it is a form of art....... Are you this dismissive of all hobbies?

PinkPomeranian · 16/12/2023 11:12

Your SIL sounds great. I personally don't think she sounds too extreme, but as she isn't a primary caregiver any messaging from her will be slightly diluted anyway. If you can grin and bear it, she sounds like a positive and loving influence on your daughter.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 11:11

FigAndOlive · 16/12/2023 11:00

I think it’s cute (and delusional) that people think we can (and even should) raise kids in a total neutral and free environment so that they can grow up 100% not influenced by absolutely anything. As if that is even possible and desirable! Fuck that, my kids, my rules, I will and I should influence with whatever I think it’s best for them, not force them to be something they don’t want to, obviously, but no, I won’t “expose” them to a variety of opinions and points of view and activities and toys and white neutral clothing shit just to see if they could be remotely interested in something different. I will expose them to my values, and my culture, my religion, my morals. I won’t purposely hide from things, we live in society so if different things naturally come up I’ll explain in an age appropriate way that I deem correct an they are gonna be taught to respect and value other opinions and culture and that’s it. I raise my daughter to be feminine and proud of being a girl, yes she can also be funny, smart, brave, etc, but she is a female before all that. Other people are free to have kids and raise them as they like, even if I don’t agree I’d never meddle like this SIL, I wonder if people that are clapping this woman for “showing DD different points of view” would be clapping if she was talking about wearing burkas of marrying as a virgin, or saying they should pro-life and against abortion. I find amazing the hipocrisy of the woke people, they want freedom and equality but if and only if you follow their agenda.

Although I don't completely agree with everything you say, I do completely agree with your wider point that the SIL is trying to impose her worldview on her niece. I also agree that the responses on here would be different if the niece were a tomboy and the SIL were a 'girly' girl who told her niece that she should wear a pretty dress and bake instead of going to football.

VanityDiesHard · 16/12/2023 11:09

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 10:36

Perish the thought that a child be exposed to feminist concepts!

What is 'feminist' about 'baking is lame and for girls, so girls should play football whether they like it or not'?

HomburgandTrilby · 16/12/2023 11:08

FigAndOlive · 16/12/2023 11:00

I think it’s cute (and delusional) that people think we can (and even should) raise kids in a total neutral and free environment so that they can grow up 100% not influenced by absolutely anything. As if that is even possible and desirable! Fuck that, my kids, my rules, I will and I should influence with whatever I think it’s best for them, not force them to be something they don’t want to, obviously, but no, I won’t “expose” them to a variety of opinions and points of view and activities and toys and white neutral clothing shit just to see if they could be remotely interested in something different. I will expose them to my values, and my culture, my religion, my morals. I won’t purposely hide from things, we live in society so if different things naturally come up I’ll explain in an age appropriate way that I deem correct an they are gonna be taught to respect and value other opinions and culture and that’s it. I raise my daughter to be feminine and proud of being a girl, yes she can also be funny, smart, brave, etc, but she is a female before all that. Other people are free to have kids and raise them as they like, even if I don’t agree I’d never meddle like this SIL, I wonder if people that are clapping this woman for “showing DD different points of view” would be clapping if she was talking about wearing burkas of marrying as a virgin, or saying they should pro-life and against abortion. I find amazing the hipocrisy of the woke people, they want freedom and equality but if and only if you follow their agenda.

Yawn. Haven’t you figured out the difference between ‘female’ and ‘feminine’ yet? Suppose your daughter isn’t interested in the latter?

FigAndOlive · 16/12/2023 11:00

I think it’s cute (and delusional) that people think we can (and even should) raise kids in a total neutral and free environment so that they can grow up 100% not influenced by absolutely anything. As if that is even possible and desirable! Fuck that, my kids, my rules, I will and I should influence with whatever I think it’s best for them, not force them to be something they don’t want to, obviously, but no, I won’t “expose” them to a variety of opinions and points of view and activities and toys and white neutral clothing shit just to see if they could be remotely interested in something different. I will expose them to my values, and my culture, my religion, my morals. I won’t purposely hide from things, we live in society so if different things naturally come up I’ll explain in an age appropriate way that I deem correct an they are gonna be taught to respect and value other opinions and culture and that’s it. I raise my daughter to be feminine and proud of being a girl, yes she can also be funny, smart, brave, etc, but she is a female before all that. Other people are free to have kids and raise them as they like, even if I don’t agree I’d never meddle like this SIL, I wonder if people that are clapping this woman for “showing DD different points of view” would be clapping if she was talking about wearing burkas of marrying as a virgin, or saying they should pro-life and against abortion. I find amazing the hipocrisy of the woke people, they want freedom and equality but if and only if you follow their agenda.

Original poster
nhd · 16/12/2023 10:58

@Tandora right... so, because she's three, I should continue taking her to football just because she can go to football, even if she asks instead to bake at home?
No, thanks. She'll be doing whatever she enjoys and asks for. Whether that's football or baking

OP posts:
saraclara · 16/12/2023 10:57

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 10:36

Perish the thought that a child be exposed to feminist concepts!

She can be introduced to them without her mother being undermined. And even more importantly, without her own small achievements, that she's so proud of, being undermined.

Again, who responds to a 3 year old rushing to show them something that she's made and is proud of, with a 'yes, but...'?

FrostyFogg · 16/12/2023 10:56

I agree with you @CurlewKate but I'm not sure it's great delivery from SIL. There are better ways i think 🤔