Ex FIL angry at DC's when they visit

Please don't set yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm. You and your house is your children's security. If your ex was that bothered about his children he'd come to your house to see them. If you sell your house you 'll be dependant on the whims of landlords and the rental market. You are unlikely to get that security back. Do not jeopardize the security of children including one with a disability to prop up your ex.

Even if you did sell and give him money, he might still kill himself and where would you be then - in a rented flat.

He might not even keep paying the rent or get evicted for not keeping the terms of the lease and lose the bond. After all it was his behavior that meant the relationship went bad. It doesn't look like he or any of his siblings have managed living alone and that is not your responsibility. You would no longer have your house and he'd be back at his dad's.

There are people who are limp reeds. They suck the life out of other people because they can't take responsibility for themselves. Ithink your ex may be one of those.

I think the previous poster who suggested less but better time is the right way to go.

GPs pay for him to take them to eg football training or similar and DF gets to socialise with other dads. DCs get sport exercise, they are out of the house. Fills as morning.

@NaughtybutNice77 I have suggested this too. It seems like the obvious, easiest option that solves most of the issue. For some reason he can't or won't do it.

It's not ideal no, but it's not your FILs job to facilitate your childrens visitation. Long term you need a plan but in the meantime could he see the children at the marital home and you go out? You probably don't want that, but then neither does your FIL and they're your children.

They have two other adult children living at home who are in the other bedrooms.

I think ex FIL is probably fed up of his grown up kids still living there tbh.

You sound lovely. Could either of you afford to book a Travelodge or YHA occasionally so they could all stay overnight somewhere? Use the TV & have more privacy? YHA would be cheaoer as you can prepare food there.

Also is MIL around to help entertain them - baking, out to shop etc.

I think he sounds worn down by it all & if he works 6 days a week for minimum wage, can't drive, can't afford a small flat then I'm not surprised he's not full of positivity.

Sunday is actually a hard day to entertain kids.

I'm not sure I would be happy to allow unsupported visits given the circumstances.

I would insist he visited at the family home or take matters up with the court.

You might be concerned about him, but it's the children that need to come first, the man sounds like a liability.

this is spot on, OP.

‘I stopped counting when I got to the 2nd “early dementia “post.

Can the armchair psychiatrists PLEASE stop saying this!!! Early onset dementia is an horrific disease and manifests itself in way more ways than someone being a bit grumpy and unreasonable. So please FUCKING STOP IT, unless you have either lived experience or psychiatric qualifications.’

This seems unnecessarily harsh. First, my comment was posted before the info about the other adults living there was posted by OP. Second, mood changes are a well-recognised feature of early dementia, eg see NHS website. Ie the early stages of the disease. I didn’t say early onset dementia which is not the same thing. (And I don’t know the FIL’s age so wouldn’t assume early onset.) Third, this was only raised as a possibility and I also posted suggestions re the situation . I would never ‘armchair diagnose’ . Fourthly, and perhaps less relevant really in this context because I don’t think it’s necessary to have these to point out a possibility, but yes, I do have almost daily ‘lived experience’ and clinical experience with dementia, very sadly.

OP, I hope you’re getting useful advice and all the best to you and your DC.

OP I applaud you for trying everything here. I don't agree you should sell your house to help financially.

If it helps, my Dad was mentally unwell, who did kill himself. When my parents split, he wouldn't see us at the family home, and he was in a hostel, so it wasn't safe for us to go there. He lost his job too, so we couldn't do anything that cost money (there were 3 of us kids).

We only had 1 summer and 1 winter before he died, but summer was definitely easier. We tried the libraries, museums etc, but they soon get fed up of being treated as a creche. We did do things outdoors, such as tobogganing down big hills when it was muddy. Sounds odd, and it was dirty, but clothes can be washed and it was fun. We actively got involved in looking in the local newspapers for free events, so we got to try things we might not have been taken to. Mum sent us out with packed lunches etc. We didn't always go though, so we saw less of him, because sometimes we just didn't want to, or we didn't want to be cold etc. We always had the choice.

It seems unreasonable to me that he won't spend time in the family home to see his children.
If he won't do that, and you reasonably don't want them in the crowded, grumpy grandparent's home, then he has to accept he sees them in the family home or for a lot less time somewhere in a public, but warm place.

None of this makes a lot of sense to me. You've always supported him yet he won't get professional help and won't come to your home. It's almost as if he's sabotaging whilst you try to rescue. Bizarre.

I think the support, kindness and understanding you are showing your ex is admirable. But in all of this your children should be the absolute priority.

if you ex-father makes them unhappy or uncomfortable then the kids shouldn’t be around him. Any financial security you have should support your children-unless your ex puts in a formal claim against you. It isn’t up to you to financially help your ex see his children.

you sound like a tough cookie OP. But you shouldn’t have to fix everyone

Sorry I don't have a solution, I don't think there is one. I just wanted to comment that "quality over quantity" probably applies here.

He is better off spending less time with them (half a day on weekends, maybe taking the eldest for dinner or a cake on a weekday after work?), but creating good memories and focusing on them, rather than absolutely trying to spend that full day each week and them remembering it as unpleasant/him being distracted by his grumpy parents etc.

@HairdryerMary Does he have any sort of plan for the future which does not involve you selling your house? A short term plan which involves him perhaps seeing the children for shorter periods more often? Maybe a McDonald's one day after school, the library another, a film at his parent's house (by arrangement) another? Is he doing anything to make things better?

To be honest-I don't think this is an ex-fil problem. It's not fair to blame him for the children's father being useless.

OP, you have to decide how bad this grumpy and shouting is. Because I'd say unless it's really bad then you kind of have to accept that you don't get to control what happens on the exes watch. That's the reality of divorce. If you went to court then the court would not stop access unless it was causing distress and harm to the kids. And I can't tell how quite how bad it is from the posts.
Your ex DP sounds like he's in a rough place and at least he's making an effort and even if the cafe is not ideal, better than nothing. So you can make some well meaning suggestions as PP have said but you can't really make him do anything different. So unless the kids are in active harmful situation I'd just try to make the best of it and let it be

Do the swimming. that will take at least an hour after changing, an hour for lunch, then park or museum if it's bad weather, go back to his and do homework, then watch a film.

I agree with all of this.

I realise that you're trying to help so that your kids don't grow up without their father in their lives. My heart broke when you posted about the 8 year old who is growing up without their dad because he committed suicide.

Please don't sell your home. Your ex has to want to see his kids and want to do better and be better. At the moment he has everyone, including his parents keeping him wrapped up in cotton wool so that he doesn't regress or do something to himself.

There is absolutely no guarantee that if you were to sell your home and put a deposit on a place for him that he still wouldn't regress. None. The only guarantee is that you would be down money, and without a home of your own that you worked hard for and your kids would be discommoded because their safe space wouldn't be there any more and they would be in an unfamiliar to them.

I can see that what you're trying to do is help and that is genuinely a very kind and decent thing to do, but honestly, until your ex is in a better place in his own mind, you would really be throwing good money after bad at this particular juncture, in my opinion.

OP, you are a very caring mother and looking for a solution that works for everyone. There isn't one. Your main objective is to provide a safe and happy environment for young children and that excludes spending a whole day at your ex's parents. It is nobody's 'fault' (and I feel huge sympathy for the grandfather) and you're not responsible for your ex and his decisions.

Cut the visit to a couple of hours or to once a month so they don't lose all contact with him (perhaps pay for them to sit in a McDonald's in the winter?). My teenage grandson has only ever seen his father once a month for various reasons and it can be made to work.

Please do not even consider selling your children's home as they need all the stability you can give them and don't lose sleep over what might happen to your ex - he's an ex for a reason.

My thoughts exactly.

I missed the bit about having 2 other adults living there as well.
So they are elderly and should be enjoying retirement.
How old is fil?
No wonder fil is angry.
I would seriously reduce contact.
I doubt being at the fil’s house is good for their well-being.
Plus I wouldn’t be telling the fil to be nicer or less angry.

This might sound harsh but your ex needs to parent his children. Either that or the op stops them going for so long.
Strange isn’t it how a full time parent ( usually a woman) manages to entertain and parent her children all day everyday 24/7. Yet here is a man who cannot do that for one day a week.
I don’t blame the fil and mil here.
They have been lumbered with their adult son, an addict, who now lives in their living room and brings his children round every Sunday. Instead of entertaining them it sounds like he dumps them at his parents house so they now have an addict plus 2 children to deal with.
I’m guessing the ex isn’t cleaning the house ready for his children’s arrival or cooking meals for everyone, or keeping his dcs quiet, engaged and entertained either.
It sounds like the fil is fed up with this arrangement and merely tolerating his son out of necessity.
Sad that he doesn’t seem to engage with his grandchildren but probably expects piece and quiet on a weekend.
Sounds like he didn’t parent his own dcs rather he left it to ‘the wife’ so he won’t change.

Lots of good suggestions here. There isn't going to be just one solution, probably more like a patchwork of them. But their dad needs to be leading this.
Might it be possible to change the contact day to Saturday, to open up more options?