To feel sad my friend got Botox?

But why do you personally give a shit @WinterDeWinter? 

because it affects us all. It affects my daughters - all our daughters. And our sons for that matter.

no one said you had to fight it single-handedly.

You just have to not reinforce it.

But why do you personally give a shit @WinterDeWinter?

Why does each individual woman have to make choices that are a fight back against patriarchal standards? What if, some days, I would like to feel more fresh and awake, and less like I had to single-handedly combat the male gaze?

The fact that you're here slagging off other womens' choices shows you're no true feminist.

I get feeling a a bit sad that she felt she needed to alter how she looked (though to an extent we all do this with hair cuts and make up- yes I know these aren’t permanent or damaging, but the underlying need to look better/ younger is there in most of us to an extent). But the point is it shouldn’t matter what she looks like to you or anyone else- it’s her view that matters. So mourning the loss of her crinkley smiley eyes feels a bit disingenuous somehow. If she seems happy then who cares really!

I haven't had any cosmetic work, but I am heavily tattooed and it's just fucking irritating when people pretend to act all sad about other people choosing to do things to their own bodies. My friends don't care that I have loads of tattoos because funnily enough, they're more concerned with my personality than the way I look!

It seems to me we are going backwards in terms of women being valued for more than their looks and youthfulness.

what a coincidence that all these women making choices ‘for themselves’ are also complying with the idea that a woman’s value is in her appearance and the degree to which she matches cartoon-ish beauty standards in a culture where men still have more power than women.

What. A. Coincidence.

Mouth? And many people don’t do their eyes just a bit in forehead lines.

@HotGirlInHell I asked her and she told me. She hadn't mentioned it herself. Tbh, I do suit brown hair far, far better and agreed the blonde 'wasn't me'. I was happy she told me the truth instead of lying.

What the hell???

You dyed your hair a colour you didn't want because your mum emotionally manipulated you into it.

The fuck.

Really no creases at all. Sounds fabulous. Mine isn't that good. Best thing I have not had one stress headache since having it done

I get what you're saying OP...you can't help feeling this way about someone you feel so much affection for. The twinkly eyes were part of that. My husband has the same adorable twinkly eyes when he smiles and I would feel a sense of some loss if he were to Botox them away. His eyes draw me in and we're one of the first things I loved about him.

Years ago I bleached my hair blonde...not a big deal but my mum seemed so sad about it. I asked her why and she, 'it's just not you'. So I dyed it back to brown. For her but also for us, as I didn't want anything, no matter how tiny and insignificant, to intrude on her enjoyment of our relationship and her affection for me and ALL she loved about me.

Can’t believe what a hard time you’re getting OP. Your friend has a different looking face, your warmth and love for her comes over in the way you describe her and now she looks different. Of course that’s a bit jarring and sad for you. You will get used to it. I have to wonder if the ones who’ve bitten back so aggressively perhaps are ladies who are very into their Botox and other treatments and take it personally. And I’ve felt exactly the same when I saw someone I loved with lip fillers, they honestly looked daft, did I say anything? Of course not, and neither will you because we don’t say things that hurt feelings unless they’re truly necessary. Yanbu to feel this way at all.

I have had Botox for years. My forehead is completely line-free. I have to say when I see women around my age with deep lines on their foreheads, I think ‘a bit of Botox would be great on you’ which is just as bad as the people that say ‘why did you do that?’ to people that have it.

Fo whatever makes you feel good. If that’s nothing at all, good for you.

Look let’s move this away from Botox for a second. I eat sugary food and I drink alcohol. They are both a big part of our culture, they’re hard to avoid, and I get enjoyment from them. But I can still acknowledge that we’d all be better off if they were less of a feature in our culture and that I’m choosing to participate in that unhealthy culture. Ditto eating meat.

I’m not saying women who get Botox are all evil handmaidens of the patriarchy. I just don’t see why it’s that difficult to be able to say I do X because it makes me feel good but I accept that makes me a little part of a wider problem.

No I don’t die my hair. I don’t wear heels. I do wear a bit of makeup. Maybe the day will come when I’m that unhappy with my wrinkles that I get Botox, who knows, but if I do I’m not going to pretend it’s not a problematic decision.

When you look at your face in a mirror it's still and not the same as when you're taking. Animated and expressive. I think that's why people don't notice how it makes their face look a bit weird. We aren't used to seeing our own expressions

If one of my friends had posted something like this about a minor change I’d chosen to make to my appearance, I’d think they were being incredibly creepy and intense and I’d be a bit scared.

Her face, her business. You sound like you’re in love with her and it’s bizarre.

eyes and mouth often have the same look post botox. They don't look younger, they look botoxed. I wouldn't dream of "noticing" if a friend had it, rude to comment on someone's appearance. (but I can tell when they have!)

Your friend isn't there to look good in the way you think she should look good.

women are looking young and stretched into their sixties and it does put pressure on the rest of us to do the same, so they don't get left behind looking their age, perish the thought! I know several women who've jumped on the botox wagon, usually at the local hair salon where it's not a doctor or a specialist doing it.

@MigGirl do you get it for hyperhidrosis?

Mine is on my face, head and neck. Maybe it's more painful due to them using more/a different profile. Unless I'm more sensitive anyway due to headpain. But honestly it's really painful for me and also due to other possible side effects it was totally a last resort treatment. I'm not sure I'd ever subject myself to it for cosmetic reasons.

Some people do suffer quite bad side effects from it (luckily I haven't and it's better then taking drugs for me).

My friend could have written this. She’s recently had botox - I’ve noticed and so has her other closest friend (she mentioned it to me, not bitching, just surprised).
Neither of us have said anything to her… our friend probably thinks we “would say something if we noticed”, but we haven’t. I’m fairly straight talking, but on this occasion have decided to keep quiet!

Our friend had a really lovely face, it’s still lovely, but now there’s something a bit ‘off’ in her expressions.

Patriarchy? Get a grip, maybe she wanted to just do something for herself! Why assume it's for anyone but her? If she's happy that's all that matters!

Yeah - I even frown in my sleep. I’m a frowny person! Some people aren’t. Botox just makes me look less cross and then strangely I feel less cross..

Of course choices aren't made in a vacuum.

It doesn't necessarily follow that every choice made is therefore bad for the individual concerned.