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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

445 replies

Mooshamoo · 03/12/2023 12:35

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

OP posts:
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Choosychoice · 06/12/2023 16:51

Why shouldn’t rich people take grammar school places? They’ve paid a heck of a lot more than poor people in taxes to provide for these schools. Why’s it fair to stop them using them?

I do think education is wasted on the young and so many lack the maturity at school to realise how important it is to get your head down and learn. The ability to sit a-levels etc distance learning / night school should be expanded.

there are so many people I know who have successes from poverty by not having a massive chip on their shoulder weighing them down.

Blueink · 06/12/2023 16:41

Hi OP, I’m surprised how many think YABU!

I don’t know how many of those voters are in a bubble and how many reacting to tones of (understandable) defeatism.

It’s proven what a profound impact poverty and family dysfunction in childhood have on a long term basis but little appetite to level the playing field and support children and families.

Currently these issues exacerbated by a long run of old Etonians running the public sector in to the ground…and from your PP public sector support is even worse in Ireland.

Sorry you’ve had such a bad experience of therapy though, it doesn’t mean therapy doesn’t work for you, just those individuals. Could you ask to be referred to a psychologist instead perhaps (is this available)?

Writing exercises around your personally limited beliefs may be useful as well as guided meditations and mindfulness exercises are freely accessible. These may take months of a daily practice to help though and likely to actually feel worse in the short term, but worth persevering for long term.

Limiting contact with those who feed habitual patterns and keep you stuck as well.

Teaching and nursing would be a high investment high emotional toil and not well paid either.

40 still young IMO but a good time to take new actions and reset things that aren’t working as much as is within your control. All the best OP.

Naptrappedmummy · 06/12/2023 16:33

Oh and means test grammar school places to homes that earn under £100k. Yes I know that a household on 90k isn’t poor but neither are they private school wealthy, it would be a blunt instrument but would weed out some of the very rich families taking the mick by using the places.

Zamzamzamdeedah · 06/12/2023 16:29

My bad with the uni. I have no idea what community college is, I am assuming like - level and Btec etc? Which is still usable education considering only minority has uni degrees.

Doesn't matter if you said different numbers. You have inherited enough to travel and buy a house.
That is something most people didn't get. So that point stands whether it was 400k or 100k. i am not arguing the sum exactly. I am arguing the point that whatever it was was enough to do all that above. It would also be enough to get the education etc.

The pp didn't say "they will just spend it on drugs", she quite very clearly explained that some people cannot, or don't want to so cannot, be "educated" and would spend money on "drink, drugs, unwise purchases" hence it is difficult to pull some children and people out of poverty. That is correct though. She didn't say that everyone poor is alcoholic or on drugs.

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 16:16

Omg No @Zamzamzamdeedah I didn't bring up anything on this thread at all about me inheriting money. Someone found a thread that I posted a year ago and posted it here. I've already answered about it MANY times. I've said I didn't inherit a large amount of money. I made up an incorrect figure at the time and changed a lot of details to ask a question about inheritance. I actually inherited a very small amount. Is this going to be brought up every few posts. I can't keep answering the same thing!

No I didn't go to university. I went to a technical institute in Ireland. They are like a community college

OP posts:
Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 16:13

I do think that some of the poorest families I know, we're poor because the dad's left.

That is not the woman's fault. it's very hard to bring up children on one income. And hard for her to stay in a good job.
How is a single mother going to work and afford childcare on one salary. She can't. Its often not possible. So she ends up staying home on benefits for years.

Anyones husband can leave them
A lot of men dont pay maintenence.
And then people look down on single parent families.

OP posts:
Zamzamzamdeedah · 06/12/2023 16:11

Not wanting to be rude, but you yourself admitted unwisely spending large sum of money until you actually ended up poor again, so pp has some point about some people, no.
You went to university as far as I understand.
You had quite a lots of priviledges thrown at you actually many others, even who didn't grow up in poverty, didn't get.

You keep arguing about poverty trap as if you never had chance to escape it. You did. At least twice

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 16:09

@FatFatMary exactly. It's very hard for the mother to go back to education, if the father has left, and she has kids to look after

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Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 16:08

@Naptrappedmummy I have to say that yoh are displaying a particularly bad attitude towards people in poverty - you're saying we shouldn't just give them lots of money as they will spend it on drink and drugs. That's a bad attitude to have.

I remember when I was in school, there was a poor girl in my year. Her parents did not drink. Never touched drugs. Her mother was not well educated (couldn't afford to go to uni) and was in a low paying job.

Poverty is nothing to with drink and drugs a lot of the time

OP posts:
FatFatMary · 06/12/2023 16:07

Also if the dad isn’t around it could be hard for the mother to get into higher education, without anyone to watch the children.

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 16:05

@Naptrappedmummy maybe it should be looked at - what is causing poverty. There are lots of factors that cause poverty.

Lack of access to equally good schooling is one thing that keep people poor.

OP posts:
Uncertain111 · 06/12/2023 16:04

It’s not just about education. It’s often about trauma and lack of opportunities.

It’s this kind of lack of understanding that results in the erroneous positions like that of @Naptrappedmummy .

Making poor decisions 😅😂 yes my excellent decision to be conceived by two well educated non-trauma affected healthy parents who had the wherewithal to protect me, love me and provide me with opportunities and a safe supportive net around me (and not die prematurely) has served me well. Well done me!

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 16:03

@gardenflowergirl you said it's about education.

But its not a fair system.

We all know that rich people can pay for better education for their children.

Poor people are trapped in bad education.

People saying that everyone has access to the same free university system is not correct.

You need the correct grades to get into university. And your school education makes you get those grades.

As rich people can pay for better schooling, it keeps people trapped in the rich poor system

OP posts:
Naptrappedmummy · 06/12/2023 15:59

I didn’t say poor people. I said a lot of people in poverty, not all of them. There should absolutely be help in a form that it can’t be abused - free school meals (good quality not the junk they serve currently), free education for those who ‘missed the bus’ initially. I just don’t think handing out large sums of money in the form of very generous financial benefits will make much of a difference.

Choosychoice · 06/12/2023 15:58

I grew up in a deprived area and the number of kids in our school who just didn’t care about getting an education was astounding. It was quite hard to learn as these kids were massively disruptive in class. If they grew up to be adults in living in poverty then I’m sorry but I have limited sympathy. A lot of them brought it on themselves.

Yes it’s virtually impossible to buy a house without the bank of mum and dad these days, but access to education is free to all.

gardenflowergirl · 06/12/2023 15:57

It's nothing to do with dad's staying around. It's about education. Educated people can get good jobs because they got their GCSEs and A levels at school so they could access training, further and higher education to get good jobs and earn more. It's never too late for education.

Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 15:50

@Naptrappedmummy I think your post is absolutely awful. You said that poor people will continue to make bad decisions and spend money on drink and drugs. Eh what!

You're repeating what I have heard rich people say before:" that it is poor peoples fault that their poor. ". Not true

I was extremely poor when I was a child. I was brought up in a single parent family. My mother never drank once. Not once. She never did drugs. She worked full time.

We were poor because our dad left us and didn't pay maintenence. It was nothing to do with drink and drugs.

What i see that contributes hugely to poverty, is whether the father stays around or not. And that is not the mother or children's fault.

Were you lucky enough to have a dad that stayed around?

It is not poor peoples fault that they are poor!

OP posts:
Original poster
Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 15:49

@Naptrappedmummy I think your post is absolutely awful. You said that poor people will continue to make bad decisions and pend money on drink and drugs. Eh what!

You're repeating what I have heard rich people say before:" that it is poor peoples fault that their poor. ". Not true

I was extremely poor when I was a child. I was brought up in a single parent family. My mother never drank once. Not once. She never did drugs. She worked full time.

We were poor because our dad left us and didn't pay maintenence. It was nothing to do with drink and drugs.

What i see that contributes hugely to poverty, is whether the father stays around or not. And that is not the mother or children's fault.

Were you lucky enough to have a dad that stayed around?

It is not poor peoples fault that they are poor!

OP posts:
beigecartoon · 06/12/2023 13:58

@Rp735 I agree that it does give some people more drive. When I look at my friends who have grown up in wealth, loads of them are entitled and underachievers. They have no drive or ambition. Yet they still live a privileged life and are happy to cast aspersions at those who haven't had the same privilege, as if their own wealth is a result of hard work and others without need to work harder.

Naptrappedmummy · 06/12/2023 13:55

Ilovelurchers · 03/12/2023 12:47

I completely agree. Disgustingly unfair. A supposedly "civilised" country that still allows some children to subsist in grinding poverty while others have obscene wealth sickens me.

I agree with the principle but sadly I think there is little we can do to help a lot of people in poverty. Sometimes you just can’t ‘educate’ people out of poor life decisions. They will continue to make them over and over. We can’t forcibly sterilise people (rightly) so they’ll keep having children and bringing them up in appalling conditions. Any money given will be spent on drink, drugs, unwise purchases. You can’t give vouchers for food as that’s seen as controlling or patronising. You could arrange work opportunities and they wouldn’t turn up.

I haven’t the foggiest what to do about the situation but I don’t think throwing large amounts of money at it would really help if I’m honest. I fear it would just take away from everyone else who actually earn it. I’m all for free universal school meals and so on, where it can’t be abused and will always benefit the child.

Rp735 · 06/12/2023 13:42

I had a troubled first half of my life too. I grew up poor. Now I am very comfortable. When I look back I realise I had an advantage I did not then see. I was street smart and had drive in a way my rich friends did not have. I was willing to work much harder and knew how to live within my means even when I started making good money. I did not get distracted by trivial setbacks. You will get there too ,provided you do not think it is someone else's job to pull you out. It would be nice if the world was fair but it is not and your job is to do what you can right here right now. All the best.

Cantcareless · 05/12/2023 16:21

Just want to share my story, grew up in poverty with very little. Saw DV while growing up but parents prioritised education as we grew up in country where there is no social security. All siblings worked very hard and managed to get in high paying jobs and have managed to get out of poverty and have our own homes etc. it is possible but you will need to change your mindset. You are still in 30s, you can change your life around. Learn skillsets which are in demand like in IT and technology and get into entry level jobs after a bootcamp etc or apprenticeship. It's never too late, you can do this.

OutsideLookingOut · 05/12/2023 14:05

Pregnantornot999 · 05/12/2023 13:16

The birth of eugenics!

Show quote history

Thinking about the quality of life of your future children is not eugenics.

"Eugenics is a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population."

I'm seeking not to add people to an unjust system where you can't support them and a majority of them will suffer. But even if it was eugenics, that should not just shut an argument down.

LittleMissSunshiner · 05/12/2023 14:04

Maybe you should apply for incapacity benefits and have time out to get well if they'll grant you space and time to work on your mental health issues? Do you have a supportive doctor or any form of mental health team?
I would worry that if you're not well enough to perform at work you're just getting into an escalating spiral of things not working out.

Ardith · 05/12/2023 13:58

Ok, I hear you. And yes life is wildly unfair. Yes some people have way easier lives that you and it is ok that this really pisses you off.

But, you also have a way better life than many. You weren’t born with HIV in Kenya and then forcibly sterilised in return for food, for example. You aren’t being stabbed or sold into slavery, other people are and they would look at your current life with huge envy.

I do know that when you are miserable the fact that others have it worse doesn’t really help. But envy of the rich isn’t gonna help you either. What you need, is one tiny step each day towards a better life. You have access to the internet. That is hugely powerful. I don’t know what free education is accessible in Ireland but please keep searching and asking for help as there may be something. For example is it at all possible to get funding to do on the job training as a teacher? You’ve already taught English. Being a teacher in Ireland may not be an ambition of yours but a lot of English-speaking teachers get recruited into Dubai schools for very good pay. If teaching doesn’t fit, take an entry-level job in anything (supermarket? Warehouse? Amazon?) and be positive and charming and work your way up. It can be done. But it can only be done with a positive professional attitude.

Good luck!

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