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Husband left kids alone at home

509 replies

OhDamnYourEyes · 25/11/2023 00:32

I just came back home after a night out with friends, which was arranged a week ago. Husband was going to be home with the kids (8 & 11), put them to bed etc.

Yesterday he asked what time I was likely to be back, as a friend had asked him to go out for a drink. I said that I wasn’t sure, but not until fairly late. As a joke I said ‘you won’t just go out and leave them, will you’ and he laughted and said ‘of course not’.

Fast forward to tonight, I come home at 23:45, kids asleep, he’s not here. When I call him, he’s at his friends house (ca. 15 mins away) for a drink.

We had recently discussed starting to leave them home alone for short periods every now and then, and once went out together to a birthday nearby from 8-10.30pm (we couldn’t get a babysitter and gave them a phone to call us if they needed to). I did however say that I feel they are actually a bit to young for this, and that while I think it’s ok to go to the shops for an hour in the daytime and leave them, I don’t feel comfortable doing so at night.

I had a massive go at him over the phone, told him that he’s irresponsible and that I don’t want to see him. What would you do?

OP posts:
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7
Appleofmyeye2023 · 25/11/2023 11:43

ill stick my neck out about all these catastrophes that kids aged 8 and 11 can’t deal with….

The overwhelming majority of adults have no experience of being in fires. And a high proportion of these will panic, and potentially do the wrong thing. They’ll try to fight the blaze themselves, or rescue precious items, family pets etc and get themselves into trouble.

Most children are used to going through fire evacuations on a regular basis from a very young age from nurseries,to schools. They know a fire alarm when they hear it. Just like all adults. They are equally as equipped following instructions on what to do in a fire at school than an adult is at work.

it doesn’t matter how old a child is, every parent should be telling their child what to do if alarm at home happens. They need to know their own escape plan and emergency routes. Do parents not teach their kids that? You could get overcome with smoke, your child needs to know that they need to get out quickly. They need to know to get out and then ring 999, or get a neighbour to do that. It really isn’t something you need high levels of experience or cognitive processing skills or maturity for. Because even adults, when afraid, get flight, fight, freeze mode which shuts down brain into reptilian thinking and not logical, executive thinking functions. It should be automatic, not something you need to even think about.

similarly the catastrophic thinking around burglary. Do you really think you as an adult will handle a burglar any better, with a better outcome? What do you think you’re going to do? Talk the burger out of nicking your stuff! Adults do some stupid things like challenging burglars that lead to far worse consequences. And burglars have been known to break in when kids are sleeping while parents are at home, even coming into their bedrooms 🤦‍♀️

It is about teaching your kids on how to deal with emergencies. Giving them confidence to carry out an action plan you’ve practiced frequently with them. Do people not understand that firefighters come to fires confident, with the right skills to do their job, because they spend the vast, overwhelming majority of their time practicing, following playbooks on what to do in a given situation again, and again, till it is instinctive, because yes, they can also be fearful and the reptilian brain can kick in.

When was last time all these parents on here, throwing their hands up in horror about an 8year old left on their own, has taught their child what the fire alarm sounds like, what to do if they hear it, how to get out of house, how to call 999, where the door key is kept at night so they can unlock if needed to get out and not wait for you ( you could be overcome by smoke sadly) . Do you practice these fire escapes with your 4 and 5 year olds. Why not? It could save their life.

we read about amazing kids aged 3, 4, 5 who’ve rung for ambulances cos mummy collapsed! Why have they been able to do that, because they’ve had parents who’ve done the teaching to tell them what to do so they’re confident and knowledgeable to do it

im not saying 8 years old is old enough to spend hours alone, it depends on child. And that’s the OPs post discussion here…but always on these threads there’s a contingent of parents whose argument seems solely based on “ wot about fire/burglary/catastrophe” and it’s the most bat shit argument to present wrt kids being left on their own

These catastrophes happen if you are there or not. Empower your kids to deal with these extreme emergencies without you anyway. their well-being and yours may depend on it .

Beezknees · 25/11/2023 11:38

G5000 · 25/11/2023 11:36

That's my point actually. If you don't start preparing kids because you're convinced they cannot possibly manage until they are 15 anyway, of course they will prove you right.

There are ways you go about preparing them. At that age, leave them for half an hour in the daytime to pop to get milk or whatever. Don't leave them for hours at night time while you're out drinking.

G5000 · 25/11/2023 11:36

PuttingDownRoots · 25/11/2023 11:30

In a way it pointless comparing countries... as in countries where its normal to leave them from younger there is preparation from a younger age to get them ready.

That's my point actually. If you don't start preparing kids because you're convinced they cannot possibly manage until they are 15 anyway, of course they will prove you right.

KatharinaRosalie · 25/11/2023 11:34

GinnyBee I'm a neighbour - Estonian supreme court has discussed the matter and said it's age-appropriate and socially acceptable to leave 7 year olds for a few hours after school.

PuttingDownRoots · 25/11/2023 11:30

In a way it pointless comparing countries... as in countries where its normal to leave them from younger there is preparation from a younger age to get them ready.

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 25/11/2023 11:30

Calliopespa · 25/11/2023 10:34

Yup. Please leave OP alone now. She has posted in sincerity because she worried they were getting the balance wrong. I think most of us think they did a bit, especially the second instance. She’s making an effort to find the line in the sand - and it does differ depending on the combination of ages, personalities etc.

Yes I agree. What DH did was completely different from the previous occasion. He had agreed to stay in but went and suited himself and didn't even tell OP. The shock of coming home to an empty must have been horrible. That to me is a huge betrayal of trust, in a way what they did previously isn't relevant because they had decided an adult should stay home. That's what the thread should be focusing on.

wurlycurly · 25/11/2023 11:28

I'm a bit aghast at the outrage here. The OP has admitted it was too young. But it's also a bit wrong to not leave 14 and 15 year olds as some posters say. At that age children need independence in order to build resilience.

MaisyAndTallulah · 25/11/2023 11:27

Zonder · 25/11/2023 06:21

FFS!

Op and DH did it once with stuff in place in case of emergency, then agreed it was a mistake and they wouldn't do it again.

This time OP left kids in the care of their dad and even double checked he wasn't going to go out and leave them.

It's really not her fault this time but some MN'ers will always want to kick another mum when she's down.

Please don't make excuses for inexcusable behaviour.

There is simply no such accommodations that are adequate for keeping unaccompanied and sleeping children safe.

The apologists for child neglect are truly pathetic.

Lucyintheskywithadiamond · 25/11/2023 11:26

You both sound like idiots to be fair!

GinnyBee · 25/11/2023 11:24

G5000 · 25/11/2023 11:16

Leaving children when they are awake is totally different from sneaking out when they are asleep. First, children hear nothing. We had a smoke alarm going off just behind their door, they both slept through it happily. And they could get very stressed if they woke up and nobody was there.

I am a bit surprised about the outrage though and that some people wouldn't even leave their teenagers. I checked out of interest the advice in some other European countries. In Germany, it's OK to start from 4yo for up to 30 minutes, and acceptable to leave a 7yo for a couple of hours. https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.ab-wann-kinder-alleine-lassen-mhsd.232be255-faf0-4ada-afc0-9157436bc803.html#:~:text=Ab%20dem%204.,und%20das%20Umfeld%20es%20zulassen.

In Switzerland, 8-9 is considered fine, this article also says that kindergarten-aged kids (4yo) can be left for shorter periods, up to 30 min.
https://www.schweizer-illustrierte.ch/family/alltag/ab-wann-darf-man-kinder-allein-zuhause-lassen
France - 6-7 to consider depending on maturity, as by 9-10 they can be reasonaly expected to be home alone for a few hours, so you need to start practicing. https://www.europe1.fr/societe/a-quel-age-peut-on-laisser-un-enfant-sans-surveillance-3665759
Another French article says not before 7, but by 10-11 they can also be left in charge of younger siblings. https://www.magicmaman.com/,quand-peut-il-rester-seul-a-la-maison,379,137.asp

A Swedish article here says that from 6-7, a few hours after school is fine.
https://loppi.se/vad-sager-lagen-om-att-lamna-barn-ensam-hemma/

All those people would have SS called on them in the UK, wouldn't they?

I was baffled to see the outrage too! I'm from Finland and at 8yo was responsible for getting myself home from school (2km walk), fixing myself a snack and taking our dogs for a quick stroll around the block while I waited for my parents to get home from work. Kids the age in the OP should be fine for a short period in the daytime, and the older one should not be made to feel fully responsible for the younger.

I wasn't left in the evening though (for dinner or if my parents went to the cinema or theatre etc) until I was a 14-15 and overnight not before I was 17.

Hibiscrubbed · 25/11/2023 11:19

Jesus Christ. I’m as casual as they come and even I think you two are shit-for-brains parents.

Eight?! With an 11 year old in charge? While you both get pissed? Really?

Crunchymum · 25/11/2023 11:18

Utterly irresponsible and selfish.

And I say that as someone who leaves my 8 and 10 year old for short periods (up to half an hour, in the daytime and I'll only pop to the supermarket less than 3 minutes walk away)

What if one of the kids had woken? I mean I know realistically nothing bad would have happened but the kids wouldn't have known where you were or how to contact you (unless the 11yo has a phone but the onus shouldn't be on them to have to find a parent)

Bandofbrothers · 25/11/2023 11:18

You know, my parents did this, didn’t say anything, myself and my brother (the same ages) went to bed as normal.

I woke up, no sign of my parents, car gone. No mobile phones in that day. I was absolutely petrified. I remember waking my brother (I was the 11 year old) and crying, he was no help being younger.

I remember looking out of the bedroom window desperately praying for the car lights to come up the road. Eventually, way gone midnight they came home. Back then it was ok to drink and drive.

I STILL remember the fear I felt 40 years later - it affected me so much that even when I got older and they told me they were going out I’d feel sick with fear.

I started waking up afraid even when they hadn’t gone out - I became so afraid of not knowing if they’d be there when I got home it became a huge problem for me.

Maybe sounds stupid but it affected me for years.

Please don’t do this.

JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam · 25/11/2023 11:17

My DH still freaks out when I leave our 11 year old (year 7) to go to tesco (which is a 2 minute drive away) to get milk during the day.

tiredmama23 · 25/11/2023 11:16

Flossflower · 25/11/2023 09:00

At 11 I was left in the evening to look after my 2 younger siblings. This is not OK. It is one of the reasons I don’t spend much time with my elderly mother.

Similar here. I was frequently left with my 2 siblings on the evenings too, our ages ranging from 7-11 ish at the time (I was the middle one). We used to play silly games and run riot, but I still recall feeling scared every time there was knock on the door and no adult was around. It's not a pleasant feeling and I still recall now.

G5000 · 25/11/2023 11:16

Leaving children when they are awake is totally different from sneaking out when they are asleep. First, children hear nothing. We had a smoke alarm going off just behind their door, they both slept through it happily. And they could get very stressed if they woke up and nobody was there.

I am a bit surprised about the outrage though and that some people wouldn't even leave their teenagers. I checked out of interest the advice in some other European countries. In Germany, it's OK to start from 4yo for up to 30 minutes, and acceptable to leave a 7yo for a couple of hours. https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.ab-wann-kinder-alleine-lassen-mhsd.232be255-faf0-4ada-afc0-9157436bc803.html#:~:text=Ab%20dem%204.,und%20das%20Umfeld%20es%20zulassen.

In Switzerland, 8-9 is considered fine, this article also says that kindergarten-aged kids (4yo) can be left for shorter periods, up to 30 min.
https://www.schweizer-illustrierte.ch/family/alltag/ab-wann-darf-man-kinder-allein-zuhause-lassen
France - 6-7 to consider depending on maturity, as by 9-10 they can be reasonaly expected to be home alone for a few hours, so you need to start practicing. https://www.europe1.fr/societe/a-quel-age-peut-on-laisser-un-enfant-sans-surveillance-3665759
Another French article says not before 7, but by 10-11 they can also be left in charge of younger siblings. https://www.magicmaman.com/,quand-peut-il-rester-seul-a-la-maison,379,137.asp

A Swedish article here says that from 6-7, a few hours after school is fine.
https://loppi.se/vad-sager-lagen-om-att-lamna-barn-ensam-hemma/

All those people would have SS called on them in the UK, wouldn't they?

Ab wann kann man Kinder alleine lassen? - Das ist erlaubt

Erfahren Sie, ab wann Sie Ihr Kind alleine lassen können und welche Voraussetzungen dafür wichtig sind.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.ab-wann-kinder-alleine-lassen-mhsd.232be255-faf0-4ada-afc0-9157436bc803.html#:~:text=Ab%20dem%204.,und%20das%20Umfeld%20es%20zulassen.

Foodie27 · 25/11/2023 11:13

This can’t be true. Who leaves an 8 and 10 year old at night or at all. Very strange if you do and I too would report you if I knew who you were.

Itsmehi222 · 25/11/2023 11:11

lilyandrosa · 25/11/2023 08:15

I’m starting to doubt my own parenting from all these responses!
My 11 year old gets the bus home from secondary school and is alone for half hour whilst i pick her brother up (10).
I’ve also left them both alone for 15 mins whilst picking milk up from the corner shop - i genuinely thought this was acceptable.

Imo what you’ve described is quite different to what OP has.

TheWizardHowl · 25/11/2023 11:11

I'm a pretty relaxed parent in lots of ways and I think this is a bit grim.

tiredmama23 · 25/11/2023 11:08

whynotwhatknot · 25/11/2023 10:53

not telling them was even worse-why did he lie and go out anyway

Agree with this. Imagine how scared they'd have been to wake in the night and find neither of their parents home 😞 Not to mention all the other awful possibilities that could have happened, this alone is bad enough.

Cloudywithahintofsunshine · 25/11/2023 11:04

I agree with the PPs. Way too young. Especially for a night time. Others have gone into the awful awful possibilities that could have occurred. Our friends still get a sitter for their 13 and 10 year olds at night. It’s very different if you are out at night, especially if you are drinking.

You know this isn’t ok. You felt uncomfortable the last time so I’m sure it won’t happen again. Show him this thread if he doesn’t get the seriousness of what he’s done. This would really erode my faith and trust in my DH’s ability to parent.

Malificent1 · 25/11/2023 11:00

If I knew who you were I’d report the pair of you to social services.

Calliopespa · 25/11/2023 10:57

whynotwhatknot · 25/11/2023 10:53

not telling them was even worse-why did he lie and go out anyway

Yes. To be fair I can see why OP is annoyed with him. He’s taken her previous “ misjudge,” which I think she already regretted, and not just repeated but amplified it, plus lied to her. That ISN’T condoning leaving an 8 year old, just an explanation of why I can see she is annoyed despite her earlier mistake.

Beezknees · 25/11/2023 10:54

Gettingbysomehow · 25/11/2023 10:05

Why the hell is everyone having a go at OP for. You do absolutely need to get out when you have young kids or you'd go mad - she had agreed with her husband that it was his turn to look after them but instead he left them on their own!!!
He is the only irresponsible parent here. He had been left in charge of the kids and he chose to go out leaving them on their own.
He is a useless waste of space and OP will never trust him again which is great for him as he knows she will never trust him to look after them again.

You do not "need" to get out. I'm a lone parent with no help and never went out until DS was old enough to be alone. I didn't go mad.