AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

If placed in this position I would be giving off reams about it and dictating equality law to management.

But your issue here should be with management not providing sufficient accessible spaces, not with women correctly pointing out that your son is too old to be in a female only space.

Just like women who don't feel able to share changing spaces with trans women should be putting pressure on management to provide single sex spaces, not using accessible spaces so that disabled people then can't use them.

@sollenwir

Whatever anyone says to management is really beyond my remit to care about.

If placed in this position I would be giving off reams about it and dictating equality law to management.

So I can assure you I would never be placed in that position in that place again.

I think you’re confusing people who would abuse women’s spaces and routinely take in older boys and people who would be forced to use them in an emergency context such as the child needing to go to the bathroom or being blocked from all other available change space where a carer could be present.

Right, so what will you do differently when your son is 11 and now three years above the upper age limit for using a female only space, not two?

@MargotBamborough

If my child is distressed or liable to be then my number one priority is quelling that distress and ensuring he is safe.

In the event that family/disability space was blocked I would naturally go to the female space if available for a child under 10 (with limited coping capacity).

If anyone gave me hassle over this I would direct them to management who placed me and my child in this position and invite them to accompany me to the reception to make a joint complaint.

Because that is where I would be going to after attending to my child’s needs.

What I am not going to do, is have my child cold, wet, distressed, having a meltdown while I stand in reception for 45 minutes while Jenny on reception who is 16 tries to locate Bob her supervisor who in turn tries to find Joe the manager who turns out to be out on a break… Nor am I going to have him undress in a public place, enter the men’s myself or have him alone in there or anywhere else and vulnerable/incapable of looking after his needs.

Thats just stupid.

You deal with the shit in the best way you can without neglecting or causing harm to the child. And then you give off to management to stop it from happening again.

I see it differently.

The trouble is that wherever you draw the line, some people are going to think there are exceptional circumstances.

If you say there should be some leeway up until the age of 10, why not 11 or 12?

I very much doubt it was a one off, because the reality is that there are many people who think the rules do not apply to them because they have a baby/toddler/autistic child/small bladder/whatever and so you are more often than not likely to find people breaking the rules who either believe they are the only one breaking the rules so it doesn't matter, or just don't care.

Although this is not a trans thread, I think it's worth noting that it is very very difficult in the current climate for a woman, much less a teenage girl, to say, "This space is for women only and you shouldn't be in here."

When that teenage girl plucked up the courage to say it was a female only space, the OP explained that she believed she and her autistic son were more important. That was a teenage girl saying, "hi, these are my boundaries" and the response was, "your boundaries aren't important". That will make it even more difficult for her to speak up the next time.

She didn't want to get changed in front of a nine year old boy but she was basically told that she had to put up with it or wait. And what would be the point in waiting when two minutes later another mother might come in with her nine year old boy, also believing that the rules do not apply to them?

This is why your rules need to be rules, not guidelines, and your cut off point needs to be interpreted strictly, not loosely.

the girl arrived as they were finishing @FarEast but it doesn’t matter because OP knows it’s really busy now and can plan her behaviour accordingly and that doesn’t include a repeat performance.

Some of us are disabled with disabled parents, disabled children and disabled grandparents. I understand exactly how stressful it is to be disabled and how stressful it is to be a carer. That in no way allows me to selfishly prioritise stealing spaces from other people to make my life easier in the hopes that they have been socialised into not making a fuss.

Also was there even a girl inside the room?

Read the first post by @JustKeepSwimmingAlong ffs.
There was a teenaged girl, who seemed to be uncomfortable.

I would take this as an exceptional circumstance @MargotBamborough

A once off that has occurred due to failure of management and lack of experience for OP.

No women were in there when he was getting showered. Only at the end when he was fully dressed did a teenager enter.

The mother explained the exceptional circumstance related to disability, the girl accepted it would be reasonable to accommodate him as he is still a child very close to the cut off point and she proceeded to change. She could have chosen to wait two minutes until they left too.

To answer your question directly, I think some leeway up to about the age of 10 would be reasonable, in the event that the child may be at risk of adverse health outcomes, injury or death by doing otherwise.

And that the mother attempts to make the child face the wall or be in an area away from anyone else there.

The one thing I would say to OP is I don’t know why the shower was necessary, you can do that at home. Kit off, dry off, dress out would be better for all involved. Speaking from the point of view that showering usually increases sensory distress.

@Robinni

@sollenwirwhat I mean is the relentless head banging no males allowed no males allowed no males allowed on this thread. If someone came up to me and started parroting that whenever I was dealing with a 9yo disabled child… frankly I wouldn’t have it.

While I can hear your frustration, frankly, you would have no choice but to 'have it' because you are actually the one breaking the rules.

Again, I would not interrupt you in that moment but would take it up with whoever is in charge, pointing out the abuse of the rules regarding males in female spaces - the facility not providing the space you need (accessible and unisex but also private) does not allow you to take someone else's space (females only) for you/your son.

I also have no issue with those who do think speaking at the time is appropriate, because they have their own voice.

Who am I aiming it at?
Well, the fact that I tagged another poster in it makes that fairly clear, I'd think.
I didn't tag the OP, I didn't tag you.

Sorry, what?

You would go to management and get them to deal with the female users of the female changing rooms who objected to a male child above the upper age limit being in there, rather than asking them to find you an accessible space asap?

@LolaSmiles I am a strong believer in voting with my feet - we all need to think about accessibility (even if it doesn't directly affect us) and actively choose places who do their best to accessible and inclusive, not choose those who don't, and make it clear to the businesses and our friends, family etc why we made these choices.

(I understand older buildings can have a harder time making the accessibility changes needed and so am more forgiving when I can see effort has been made in those situations).

For what feels like the hundredth time I have had to say this, I am on your side with the fact that we need more disabled facilities EVERYWHERE, but I will not accept this is more important than the protection of female only spaces.
I guess the question is who are you aiming this at? The OP has already said she wouldn’t do this again. Who exactly are you trying to tell on repeat? Is it the people who “don’t mind”, because they don’t care and are irrelevant? Is it other parents of boys over the age of 9 (or 7 or 8 or all the other numbers people have suggested)? I’m sorry I don’t see who you’re trying to educate in your way of thinking.

So where would you draw the line? Two months over the upper age limit is fine?

What about 3 months? 6 months? A year?

@sollenwir what I mean is the relentless head banging no males allowed no males allowed no males allowed on this thread. If someone came up to me and started parroting that whenever I was dealing with a 9yo disabled child… frankly I wouldn’t have it.

And most people would be understanding and compassionate as to the reason he was in there - people without disability taking up disabled space. Therefore leaving no other option.

If there was an issue (and I can’t ever think that this would ever occur because generally everywhere we’ve ever gone people have been decent, caring and supportive) I would offer to join the person upset in making a complaint because the situation would not be to my liking either.

I have a baby and a two year old and would not do that.

I think things will improve but it will take time
I think it's going to take time and it's going to require a lot of people challenging the budge up rhetoric in their words and actions.

This will mean instead of looking around and hoping "society" gets the message, realising we all have a duty with our actions to be the society.

Eg. I will not take an older male child into female single sex spaces. Venues that do not cater for my need for unisex family changing will not get my custom. I have no problem ringing up and asking what family changing is available before going.
Eg. I will not teach my children that disabled facilities are there for them to use if it's more convenient or preferable to other facilities

This is why I think people need to take a bit of responsibility as parents for the messages we promote to our children. We can't teach our DC that people with disabilities may need accessible facilities and then in our actions show them it's acceptable for non disabled people to just nip in for a quick wee if it's more convenient.
Just like we can't teach our girls they can expect privacy and dignity in a single sex space / teach our boys about boundaries, privacy and dignity, if our actions show them it doesn't apply if we want to go to X Venue because at that point privacy and dignity doesn't matter.

Our children watch us to learn what's ok.

I wouldn't challenge you there and then because I don't think that would help anyone. However, a female politely questioning why a male over the allowed age is present in a communal female only changing area isn't abuse in itself, because the male shouldn't be in there to start with. I would have no problem mentioning to management/staff that there was a male in the communal changing however, and would do this concerning any male over the allowed age.
If your child is over the age allowed by the facility, then you have no right to take him in there. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true.
For what feels like the hundredth time I have had to say this, I am on your side with the fact that we need more disabled facilities EVERYWHERE, but I will not accept this is more important than the protection of female only spaces.

We totally agree on this.

The room I directed her too was also designated disabled, but had the baby change and an adult size changer in.

The toilet she chose to go in was solely for disabled people’s use.

I think things will improve but it will take time.

See, now this is why I am 'repeating myself' - a 9 year old male would not have been 'totally fine' going in there, because it's a female only space and he's over the age males are allowed in as a courtesy (as said before it's up to 8 in a lot of places, although remember, like a speed limit, that is the UPPER limit).

The transitionary period needs to start before the point of the child reaching the upper age limit, not after it, and expect it still to be ok.

I hope the OP finds the courage/confidence to ask the facility how they can help her with this - they may well have policies in place, with guidance and accommodations which can be made, which do not involve taking him into the communal female changing area.

@MargotBamborough

I did say that, she stated “Oh it’s fine, I have a baby, and wafted off”

There is something about the 0-2 age where mothers think they have some sort of Royal status or similar and can trample over everyone.

@sollenwir to be honest if I was in the same circumstance as OP and encountered someone like you challenging me when trying to attend to my 9yo disabled child whose space/routine had been taken/disrupted due to people without disabilities.

What I would have done is call management down immediately to protect me from the abuse and to make a formal apology to you for their failing.

I am not going to put my child - who is not sexually active or any threat whatsoever - at risk of harm because of an inflexible feminist who lacks compassion.

The situation was out of OP’s control, she did her best and will ensure her son isn’t discriminated against in future.

Obviously, parents of autistic males want to protect them from developing inappropriate behaviour that could lead to criminal charges as adults.

Of course they do.

If it was the case that OP had a 14yo adolescent and was bringing him repeatedly to women’s changing that would be one thing.

This is a 9 year old boy, who would have been totally fine going in there 2 months ago at the age of 8.

This is a transitionary period where OP is adapting to the new necessary boundaries and the problems this creates in terms of managing a child with disability.

She asked for advice on how to handle it in future, not the riot act.

Perhaps this wasn't true in your case, but many establishments actually often combine the baby change with the disabled facilities, in one room. That clearly isn't actually helping anyone - parents might use it and feel guilty, parents might not use it and feel guilty, disabled users may feel guilty they are taking too long in there, and so on. Disabled facilities are often an afterthought, a compromise, if they exist at all.