To think State education is really poor?

Some countries understand reducing the state burden for education

Which is the opposite to Labour

Germany give income tax relief to parents who use private schools.

You think so? Uhmmm

No it didn’t.

I think it makes a difference in how you’re treated. And how you communicate is part of being a doctor. As they all go to the same unis with high qualifications it’s a given they’re competent..

‘Bull shit state school kids … do better at uni’

No no. We’ve been through this. Research shows otherwise in many cases. But don’t let facts get in the way of your prejudice and inverse snobbery.

Friend has been privately educated throughout. She had 6 different chemistry teachers in 6th form, and they say that state schools have a teacher retention programme 🤷‍♀️

@HumourM3

😂 ‘Actually I’d much rather have a doctor not born into privilege and who had real life experience’

I prefer my doctors to be competent . Don’t give a fig about their background. I’m not that judgemental.

Bull shit state school kids do get the grades and do better at uni. There are plenty of debating opportunities in the state sector( although I’m not exactly sure why that would make you a better doctor).The state pupils applying will have stonking good predicted grades.

So two thirds are state applicants, its dreadful that private schools are so over represented with the same grades! State schools are just as capable of helping with personal statements and have experienced staff. If you are saying it’s down to personal statements somebody else has input in that isn’t ok. Actually I’d much rather have a doctor not born into privilege and who had real life experience.

You are talking about so-called country grammar schools. These are a totally different beast from super-selective grammar schools. They are just like excellent comprehensive schools in good locations. It is much easier to get into a country grammar that accepts even 25% of the local cohort than super-selective grammars that live off their glory and may not be great schools anymore. No, I have not said all of them are like that. And if only they were downgraded because of safeguarding issues, etc. No, two of the most competitive grammar schools near me went from Outstanding to Good because of far from outstanding teaching. It is a shame that talented kids are driving the results, and they don't have outstanding teaching—worse than local outstanding comprehensive schools.

North London Grammar School - Ofsted Inadequate
Menorah Grammar School - Ofsted Inadequate
Colchester Royal Grammar School- Ofsted Inadequate
and many many went from Oustanding to Good:
Only a third of ‘outstanding’ grammar schools inspected since 2021 have kept an unconditional top grade, casting doubts on calls to revive selection.

Regarding that Labour "thing", I am Green and don't vote Labour. I would even open more grammar schools but only if they provided adequate teaching. I am against super-selective grammars that don't make an effort to provide a super education and are taking advantage of their fame. For example, a local grammar school downgraded from Outstanding to Good decided to advertise for a marketing manager role. Just as the private schools do. One would think they would look for changes in the teaching staff instead...

You’re not being goady; you’ve hit the nail right on the head. It’s the same with Law - private students have had much better access to debating and broader discussions. It doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to apply for and be successful in these fields. It just means we need to address the often low standards (I don’t mean individual teaching standards) and lack of extra-curricular opportunities in state schools! I say this from experience. When I have taught in state schools, I have had to teach to the test and everyone, including me, is constantly assessed and scrutinised. It’s frankly exhausting, very narrow and often boring. When I have taught in private schools, I’ve been told ‘teach whatever the hell you like as long as at the end of the year they’ve covered these things…’ That makes for much more inspiring and I treating teaching abd learning

@Teentaxidriver I have no problems with differentiation in education, teaching differently able kids different things in different ways. But the 11 plus is a bonkers way to do this and grammar or not is far far too narrow and option. The German system is much better around this.

Could not agree more.

I live in a grammar county (deliberately). Eldest DS at an extraordinary grammar. Youngest about to start. Nice try dispelling the “myth” of grammar excellence. Woolly generalisations with reference to the odd outlier. Note you didn’t tackle the core issue = Labour’s ideologically driven choice to abolish grammars.

I think it's because private education and the attendant advantages (not just grades advantage due to teaching, small classes etc) of access to work experience through family friends, the ability to work for free volunteer etc creates a glass floor.
A stack of A's in A level science is not enough.
The same applies to law, journalism etc.
It's a problem because those advantages bolster those kids achievements. Then they are grown arsed adults in workplaces and some of them (repeat some before everyone gives anecdotes about their DC) are just not as innately able as their state school compatriots with the same grades. Then they tend to club together and employ people like them. We're not rewarding true ability. Numerous studies have shown part of our productivity problem is down to the poor quality of our senior management and leadership in let industries and businesses (both private and public).To allow true talent to flourish and our society to compete on a global scale we now need to allow average not to be propped up, remove the glass floor. Be a true meritocracy.

Not entirely true. In medicine, for example, over a third of applicants are privately educated. They often also have a lot more help from very experienced staff with personal statements and their applications in general. They also deserve to be offered places as they too have worked their arses off for them! The problem is ensuring that state pupils are not put off from applying in the first place and making sure that they also have all the help they need with the application process so that their applications are of the same standard as private applicants. Funding for such a long course is also a consideration. At the end of the day, who gives a damn what sort of school their doctor went to as long as they are able to treat them effectively!

Yep. I'll hold my nose and vote Tory purely on Labour's intention to add VAT to school fees. Apart from being immensely damaging, it sends a message to moderately successful families about how they view us. Cash cows that should know their place.

This isn't meant to be goady, but do you think that's because a lot of state school children don't have access to specialist science teachers so wither don't make the grade or are put off even applying for medicine

A decent education should not be seen as a luxury. In any case, many private schools aren’t luxurious. Some have worse facilities than local state comprehensive. The benefit of a private school is having a learning environment where all children can thrive, something which we should aspire to in the state system.

In any case, the “luxury” argument is irrelevant. Plenty of luxury items aren’t subject to VAT.

The German system is a good idea - divide children based on strengths but allow the ability to switch as children develop.

Don't vote tory 🤷‍♀️

It is not the norm though and you are paying for the bells and whistles version of education. There are many DC in state schools with SEN for whom private is not an option either.

Not facts because it isn’t in place yet.

FYI Greece tried to tax education and it back fired on the government and they had to withdraw it.

Not all all. It is quite simple. It is your choice and you pay for it and VAT will be part of that. These are just the facts.