To think State education is really poor?

He attended an open day where they are quite literally selling the school, so yes they will paint it in its very best light to attract customers with big cheque books.

Its obviously not quite as clear cut as private = exemplary & state =crap experience/outcomes (based on your sample of 2 schools.) Unfortunately, as a parent with secondary age dc I have witnessed how underfunded education has been in the last decade, particularly infrastructure. The Government should be investing in the education of our children, not throwing taxpayer money into dead ducks like HS2 & they should respect the crucial role teachers play & bloody well pay them properly!

That’s not based on their parents’ income though it is?

This was actually the reason I went for the all girls Catholic school for my DD for secondary. Our local comp has a huge bullying issue and lots of disruption. The Catholic school is calm and disruption is really rare, any bullying is nipped in the bud quickly.

I think with private schools a very big influence is the environment. It is actually set up for calm. Lots of greenery, fewer people, proper sit down meals. Classical music concerts at lunch time in the domed concert room.

State schools it’s in and out at a frenetic pace that heightens everyone. We are on the back foot before the first bell has even rung.

@Boswelian
What are the fees?

Nah, there will always be some people who will pay money not to have to mix with the poors, even if there was literally no other difference.

It may be an uncomfortable thing to admit, but whatever your views about state and private schools, it would be naïve to believe that the other students in a school have no effect on how good an education your child would get there.

There are quite a few ex prep kids in my DS year 7 - not all are in top set maths .. despite their years of classes of 14

This is anecdotal and not true of all state schools. I have found it the other way round. Also anecdotal.

Nah, there will always be some people who will pay money not to have to mix with the poors, even if there was literally no other difference.

(Obviously Not All Private School Parents, but definitely some because I know them, and they are quite open about it)

OP, you said yourself that there were half the number of children in the class, and it is an academically selective school. If you skimmed off the top half of the year in your DS’s state school, the teachers would be able to pick up the pace of teaching too. Same as grammars can.

2 years behind in maths by year 5 is what my friend a maths teacher reckons when she gets kids from state school. She says it’s due to state schools not stretching the top of the class as much due to all the effort going into bringing the bottom of the class up to average. She says the bright kids quickly catch back up though.

@Christmasaaarrrggghhh because government won't fund such facilities.
Literally no money and no spaces.
Plenty of disadvantaged kids end up just off roll.. whole other thread but I know two personally who were kicked out of one school and no place in a school that could help them

I sent my kids private after seeing the chaos of our ‘outstanding’ state secondary. My eldest was getting beaten up daily with absolutely zero consequences and the disruption continued - actually got worse - in the classroom. I pay for a calm learning environment where any bullying is addressed in full. Couldn’t give a damn about ‘connections’, hockey tours, endless sports clubs. It’s safeguarding and a calm, quiet classroom I pay £20k per year per child for and it’s worth every penny.

Why oh why oh why don’t state schools remove violent / disruptive pupils to learning environments more suitable for their needs as soon as they start kicking off? It’s baffling. Why should other state school kids suffer continual disruption and violence? It’s so unfair, and I would guess is the single biggest cause of educational inequality. Easily fixed, but just not.

@Boswelian I would definitely take the fact that they've said he is two years behind academically with a huge pinch of salt! Independent schools are businesses who want to attract new customers, and worrying them with this sort of thing is one way to do it!

I've taught at both state and independent senior schools. When I marked 13+ common entrance papers at the independent school I was shocked by how poor the standard was in many cases, and that parents had forked out so much money for their child to be barely literate. I think I assumed that the children would be brighter. But as in every school there was a vast range.

If your state school says your child is doing well, then they will be doing just fine!

Out of interest, how do you define a 'broad and varied' education. I definitely feel my DD has experienced this at state school.

Hmm...
Bearing in mind it was a taster day you may wish to take some of what they tell you with a liberal pinch of salt. How would they even be able say from a day that he is two years behind their curriculum?!

Personal experience of private schools where I live is that many are actually run on an absolute shoestring and are finding it increasingly hard to make ends meet. I went to look around one local school for a teaching position. Asked where the laptops/iPads were only to be told they didn't have any. Then during my informal chat with the head was informed that they were leaving the teachers pension scheme as it was too expensive.
A friend sends her children to a very well know school where her daughter is taught English by an RE teacher as the teachers are expected to teach across the school due to staffing issues.
Some are definitely worse than state schools, despite not having to submit to the same level of accountability and scrutiny.

3 times the money can make things look a lot better.

3 times the money can make things be a lot better.

That's not true at all.

It kind of is, even if the differences they are paying for aren't ones you'd value. Some people will pay a lot of money simply to be able to choose the kind of schoolmates their children will have. That's still a difference.

I'm happy to pay for smaller class sizes, more facilities, more extra curricular activities etc. I also pay for a state place I don't use so that helps subsidise the state sector. Everyone benefits.

At my Dd's school they had an actual woodland area for 'outdoor learning' (forest school.) On top of that they often did lessons outside. The woodland area was often used for various types of hunt!

@Charlie2121 "The average private school is light years away from the average state school."

3 times the money can make things look a lot better.

No. The difference is, at least in my case, that I did significantly more at school than my friends who went to state schools. In simple terms I was at school for way more productive hours than they were. I also had a very different approach towards education than they did, in part school led but also influenced by my parents.

Many of them now have very modest careers primarily due to lack of opportunity rather than lack of ability.

It is the same in all walks of life. Why do so many sportsmen and sportswomen have offspring who also end up as professional athletes in the same sport? I doubt they are all genuinely the best there is but they will have had the best opportunity to showcase their talent because they will have had far more exposure to the sport from an early age.

Also private schools have parents who can pay to remove disadvantage from their children. The kids will always be well fed, clothed, have their own study space, clean home, activities etc. The parents can throw money at nice properties and hire cleaners, nannies and other help if they can't or don't want to deal with domestic stuff themselves whereas state pupils are often left to get on with it and fend for themselves in disadvantaged households.

Yes, wonderful it could be like where I live where we have grammars. Yes, the Grammars are marvelous so those children get an excellent education. All the Comprehensives are dire, though. So the majority of the children don't get a good education. Fantastic.

Sport every day sounds awful. DS is counting down the days till he can ditch one of his two PE lessons each week. But in general I guess a private school will be "better" as the parents will demand results and experiences for their money.

I have just taken my DD (with SEN) out of an outstanding secondary state school. It completely broke her. And it definitely didn’t provide an outstanding education. I can well believe private school would have been better. Her state primary was wonderful however.