To think State education is really poor?

That’s correct. The point I was making is that I cut back on other things such as size/location of house to make school fees more affordable.

I’d prefer not to have to pay for private school at all and then I could retire even earlier but that’s not an option. I’m faced with either hefty school fees or an expensive move. I chose the former. I could have stretched things further and had a more expensive house and private school however I value earlier retirement more than I do a bigger house.

It is all very well and good getting all political and idealistic about the sending your kids to a private school, but when the time comes we will try to do it for our boy if we can at all stretch to it. There are some brilliant state schools out there, but so many suffer from a shortfall in parental interest and aspiration for their children, that they are on a hiding to nothing. I'm not sure throwing money at them will help; no amount of new stationary will change these parents and likewise by extension, their children's attitude. I'll be paying to have him in an environment where education is valued and disruptive kids aren't tolerated. And we won't live in constant fear of knife crime because someone "dissed" someone or looked at them in the wrong way.

You’re missing the point that many families who use private schools don’t have good state options though. Some will use private regardless, but it’s by no means all. Many families have already tried the state system and it’s failed them. It’s precisely why they have switched to private.

We are in a similar boat and with the threat of VAT on fees and have already moved into catchment of an excellent state secondary. I will reduce my working hours when they start secondary so I am available to supplement their education in other ways.

We are one of a number of families in our prep school who have made this decision. Historically, destination schools for Y6 leavers have been in the region of 90% private. This year half the children are going to state secondaries (funnily enough, none of them to failing ones). A number of families currently in Y5 have moved house into areas where they can get into better state secondaries.

There is a cohort who will find the money no matter what but people need to stop kidding themselves that this will raise anywhere close to the amount projected. If people are already making these moves before labour are in power, you can only imagine how many will do so when the policy is implemented.

FWIW we use a small local prep school where the demographic consists of two working parents who are small business owners or professionals. Majority of parents choose the school for small class size and comprehensive wraparound care.

But they do. People locally do spend £30k per year to send their four year old to DPL, HHS, JAGS, DUCKS etc. And obviously not because local state primaries are poor, because they aren’t. It’s to avoid the horrors of their little darlings mixing with the FSM kids.

(It really is that, I know plenty of parents with kids at these schools via DS’s rugby/tennis clubs etc, who are quite explicit about wanting to avoid their children mixing with The Poor).

We sent our younger daughter to a private school on advice from the Police because she was being bullied (violently attacked ) at her state school : who did absolutely nothing about it.

Apart from her being happy and safe, the standard of education , in every sense and department , was so much higher, shockingly so.

And this proves the point that there is huge inequality in the state system. Many people just don’t have access to those types of school. Those in London and the South East often have access to great school schools, which is probably why a lot of people don’t understand the need to use the private sector.

We aren’t. I live in a flat off Coldharbour Lane, and 40% of the children at DS’s primary are in FSM (looked it up last night after someone here was pearl-clutching about sending their child to a school with good results but 45% of children on FSM).

The school is outstanding (inspected earlier this year), offers MFL from reception, every child learns an instrument from year 2, they do a lot of music, dance and drama (concerts, plays and a dance show at least once a year), lots of trips, excellent Sats results.

They have spaces in every year. Going down to one form entry from next year due to the drop in birth rate. Any child in south London who wanted to go there could get in. There are similarly excellent schools across the borough, again available to everyone regardless of wealth.

The closest high-performing single-sex state secondary schools are in Peckham - again, not exactly a bastion of middle class wealth.

I went to a poor state school, as did my DH.

We would still not send our DC to a private school or a grammar school.

If there was excellent state school provision local to me I would not be spending 250k on private schools.

And yet you’ve previously said that you’d rather have a cheap house with no mortgage and pay for private school and retire early.

They can but I don’t think the pp was incorrect, many people do access better state via funds eg house prices or selection on top

That's such a lazy argument, kids can and do thrive in state schools in less prosperous or mixed areas

Except there won’t be any extra cash. Labour has been very careful to cherry-pick their information and to not include the actual costs. Credible sources (like the ISC and the actual current drop out rate from private schools) suggests that somewhere in the region of 20% of privately educated children will leave the sector. That’s a cost of 600,000 to the state sector. Then there’s the 3-16% of children who will probably be made exempt because of SEN needs (dependent on what exactly the criteria is). Added to that, the law will necessarily have to be changed to allow schools to claim back VAT on their expenses. This can go back 10 years. Whilst for your average independent school this won’t mean much, for the ultra-rich few it certainly will. VAT on multi million purchases will be a substantial chunk of money so that has to be taken from the pot too. If Labour genuinely wants to raise money for state education this is ineffective; it could do it through a form of income tax which would hit all high earners. This is not about money, let’s not kid ourselves, though obviously supporting it from an ideological stance is another matter.

But are you living in a fairly affluent middle class area to be able to access that wonderful single sex state school? If so that’s just another form of money buying education isn’t it?

Total education spending is around £116bn. Therefore, the optimistic IFS estimate is around 1.3% of the total budget. If people think that this is going to suddenly transform the state sector, I think they might be in for a shock. Transforming the state system is going to cost a lot more than that. It’ll be interesting where the funding is coming from.

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/annual-report-education-spending-england-2023#:~:text=Total%2520spending,-1.&text=In%25202022%E2%80%9323%252C%2520total%2520public,2.

Of course they won’t. They know there’s no cash to expand the education system enough to accommodate an extra half a million pupils.

1.6 billion is something like 2% of the total education budget. It sounds a lot but is nowhere near enough to be transformative

The issue is the privately educated with the same grades unfairly represented in the top jobs and unis

This is the problem with the view of education in this country. Too many people are obsessed with the grades and piece of paper given at the end of 14 years of education. Education should be about so much more than this. It’s about nurturing and developing decent human beings, exploring their strengths and finding out what they are good at. We are increasingly competing on a global stage with countries where children have had a brilliant education; an education which has taught them more than merely how to pass an exam.

It’s not hugely unusual these days for pupils to get straight As in all their exams. Employers and universities have to differentiate between them somehow. They look for soft skills which many private schools (and some state schools) have taught their pupils. It’s why many parents choose private education. It’s about so much more than exam results.

Well there you go you’ve saved money. Private schools don’t even perform that well. Leave people who pay for both via taxes and fees as they are, it frees up spaces in state.

I’d prefer smaller state classes than bringing more from private

So why the need to punish private schools if they aren't even that good. Let us waste our money sending our DC to inferior schools. You realise that for every DC that leaves private school for state that there is a new burden on the state to fund their place? Plus the amount raised in VAT goes down.

I don’t think it helps that people block out stats

Economically it doesn’t stack up, plus the other downsides

Quite. It's just self interested hysteria. We can all see through it.

Plus plenty of private schools don't even perform that well academically and plenty of state schools get excellent results. There's no way I would send my bright son to any of the local private schools

This isn’t scaremongering, it is projected fact based on sound economics.
We can't afford VAT as yhat will be 20% plus fee rise per year. I am providing an educated counterpoint to Labour's flawed reasoning.

No the biggest cause of inequality in this country is private education

6% of children being educated privately really isn’t the biggest cause of inequality.

There are huge inequalities within the state system as shown by this thread; some can access great state education, others only have dreadful schools to choose from. Health inequalities, long term unemployment, homelessness, sex and racial inequalities; these are huge causes of inequality. Perhaps politicians would do better to address these issues rather than focussing on a minority of people in private schools.

That’s definitely Labour talking! Push people down.

The majority will be paying it. When you’re paying the equivalent of a salary and apparantly the alternative is so dire I’m pretty sure most will find it. Stop scaremongering.