To think State education is really poor?

I think it depends on the state school. DH went to a private school and most of his school friends are wankers. BILs went to private school and hated it. One is now a forklift driver and the other a recovering drug addict.

my siblings and I went to state school, albeit one in a nice area, and have achieved what we wanted. One is a doctor, one a professional dancer and one a research scientist. Most of our friends from school have similar professional jobs, run businesses, my sisters friend is a pilot.

we were always encouraged to work hard and take opportunities that come our way. We did so much extra curricular stuff, and that gave us a wider group of friends.

I don’t think it’s as simple as private vs state… it’s what’s the right place for the child, and massively to do with the involvement and attitudes of the parents

Stop being ridiculous / pedantic.

Pp said yearly fee rise +20% VAT. which it will be if Labour introduce their equally ridiculous policy.

And most of the country doesn't have the privilege of choosing to pay school fees 🙄

And many state school parents have those resources too. The majority of grammar school DC are from MC backgrounds, state primary or not.

That is not a 20% increase each year.

Not true. Not true at all.

Well yes. I meant opportunities for all of the extra curricular stuff they do, options to do things they just wouldn’t do at a state school. Music sports arts so much of it all.

I haven't RTFT but felt I should just say the following. When people say that those choosing private education are hoping to buy grades and I say that isn't always the case the very examples given in the first opening post are precisely why some do chose to spend their money on private education.

@Charlie2121 "You were lucky to live near a good state school then"

Most people do. Despite briefing to the contrary.

You were lucky to live near a good state school then.

I don’t have that luxury so have to spend 250k to receive a decent education for my DS, something which you received for free.

Remind me again why it is me who should be paying more tax?

Actually it is about having calm and peaceful learning environments which are conducive to learning, getting physical exercise outdoors all year round and having a much broader range of subjects so that DC can find their passion. Oh and freedom from the god awful national curriculum

It’s not really about results, state schools can achieve the same, it’s about opportunities.

My kids state school is great and all came out with top grades. Obviously they didn’t do PE 3 times a week or change into wellies but then again I didn’t spent a few hundred grand on it either

Well yes actually it is. Every time fees are paid it will be the cost of fee + 20%
Fees go up yearly so every year it will be cost of fees + 20% VAT.

It is not a 20% plus fee rise per year. The 20% rise for VAT will only happen once not every year.

We pay for private 1-1 specialist support for select subjects and activities. They are thriving, high achievers

If they are high achievers why do they need private tuition? Or are they for subjects not taught at their school?

The private school can get through things twice as fast as the state school as there are half the number of students. They therefore have the capacity for covering more and varied topics/sports/skills in their day than a state school.

If you have 30 kids sharing 15 keyboards or computers, you need twice as long for everyone to have a go than a private school with one instrument or laptop each.

If you go around the class and ask each child a question about the work or to comment on a task or to talk about their weekend or to line up for lunch or hand out books/worksheets, everything takes twice as long as if you had 15 people doing those things.

A bright child will do well which ever school they go to.

Research has shown one of the most accurate predictors of a child’s ’success in life’ is whether or not they had a secure and supportive family upbringing.

For me private schools are about facilities and opportunities. Simple as that.

My DS went to one of the most famous boys boarding schools in the world extra curricular did mean extra learning in the sense of “learning subjects” plus 60-70 extra curricular activities offered every week. But so it should the fees were £35k a year and I haven’t looked recently but I believe now in excess of £47k. But this is unusual, only a relatively small group offer this and have of course matching fees outside of the reach of the vast majority. I know because I’ve worked extensively in the independent sector. Frankly many independent school are not offering much more than a good state school, they know how to appeal to parents they employ people to market their schools but underneath it all the I’m not convinced that the difference is a big as you think.
They love to tell you that there children are 2 years ahead of their contemporaries in the state sector and of course many do have dedicated subject teachers from yr 2 and science labs etc and amazing sporting facilities which I suspect make subjects more interesting but academically if your child is at a good state school then eventually everyone catches up. Neither of mine went to school till they were 6 and 7 both caught up in a couple of terms and one passed his peers very quickly and went on to get top grades at 18. Prior to school they’d lead an outdoor life developing their personal skills and understanding of the world around them instead which now they are adults I think has stood them in good stead.

Them saying your child is "two years behind their curriculum" is just them telling you they have a different arbitrary standard to hold your child to, not a guarantee that he will meet it.

I agree. Those children make it to selective schools because of tutoring. Not because of higher standards of academic curriculum in private schools.

I would never pay for group tuition. If I’m paying, I want individual 1-1 from top tutors that I choose.

I think it would be more realistic to call them "secondary modern areas" not "grammar areas"....

Anyone getting into an academically selective private school will walk into any grammar of their choosing.

Grammars were used as a backstop in my area for parents who didn’t get their children into highly selective private schools. VAT will mean that many now can’t afford private so will target grammars at 11+ thereby reducing opportunities for others.

I’m not sure who benefits from that.

Not all of us have access to grammar schools.

Arguably it makes more sense to tax grammar school parents more on a means tested basis than taxing private school parents more.

?