To not forgive?

jeez, I’d not bother with her either, you are not BU OP
what a horrible thing she did

I'm sorry OP, what your in-laws did was absolute shit and they don't deserve to be forgiven. They clearly feel no remorse for their actions, they ruined YOUR big day. My in-laws threw tantrums during our wedding planning and dictated pretty much everything, from start to finish. I know how it feels, they threatened they wouldn't come to our wedding if we didn't pick a fancy venue. We wanted to keep it simple, low key and not spend so much but they wanted to show off to the world and expected nothing less than a 5 star hotel.

We went 15k over budget, money that could have been saved for our home deposit. It's been a shit show and they've done lots more since. I have ZERO respect for them and have gone very low contact.

I say stick to your gut feeling and DO NOT forgive or excuse such despicable behaviour. Write a message/letter to them and let them know all the shit they've done and that you will not tolerate being disrespected. Make it clearly you're not going to forget or forgive, period. End the letter sternly and abruptly, such nasty bullies should be taught a lesson.

I would not forgive that. She is not your mother and she is nasty.

Her son can see her if he wants, and maybe he ought to.

The worst part was when she said she would have gone to the wedding anyway, so she did all that manipulative stuff for sport.

The idea that we should forgive others for our own sake is wrong in situations like this, in my view. There's no sign of remorse, and it sounds as though there never will be as she lacks sufficient humility and consideration for the feelings of others. I suspect a narcissistic personality disorder of some sort. If it were me, I would cut all contact (while making it clear to your DH that you are not forcing him to do the same).

I've done this in the past (for less serious things), and find it's possible to forget without needing to forgive the unforgivable. To answer your philosophical question, forgetting is perhaps underrated vs forgiving, possibly because forgiveness is central to so many religions. But I've found that it's possible to move on happily without having to appease someone who does not deserve your time and focus.

I think forgiveness here, is forgiving yourself of your own feelings that you don't want further contact. Take away the inner turmoil realise that it's perfectly fine to want NC and space. It's perfectly fine not too forgive on the basis of a bunch of flowers.
So yes, forgive yourself for having these feelings and be at peace that the decision you are making is the right one for you.

Wow I’m not surprised you don’t want anything to do with her. And like you say she’s not acknowledging what she did.

She sounds an overbearing pain in the arse. The thing is in life: do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

Poor DH and poor you. Why did he get back in contact? He needs to have a conversation that 1. you do not need to do anything in relation to her. 2. If she wants to be forgiven she needs to sincerely apologise and demonstrate she understands why this is necessary. 3. Show by her ongoing actions she really understands healthy boundaries and 4. Stop telling him what she thinks you are not doing correctly as he does not need to hear it. I suspect that may lead to blow back for him, but if she is as unreasonable as she sounds, he may be better off with that. About 75% of people who go no contact with family express regret over it so it is a really hard thing to do, but sometimes it really is better for mental health.

Yep but MiL isn't really asking her to forgive because she doesn't think she did anything wrong. What's she's asking for is for OP to pretend it never happened so that MiL can continue ruling everyone's lives with no repercussions.

Forgiveness for me isn’t about the person who wronged you. It’s about you deciding to not give it any more of your time or energy. You don’t need an apology to forgive. You can just say to yourself, she did that because she’s got her own issues which she refuses to work on and that’s just sad.

To me, that's acceptance and is a good thing, but it shouldn't mean that someone feels they have to have a relationship with the other person moving forwards.

This really.

What she did was cruel.

PeppermintMandy said it much more succinctly 😃

Forgiveness is where you say "what you did was wrong, but I'm not dwelling on it, not eaten up with anger, and I genuinely wish you well". You are not saying "it's ok, it doesn't matter" or "let's pretend it didn't happen" or even "I trust you not to do it again". Like if your sibling borrowed your car and then drove like a loon and wrecked it, you could forgive them and also never lend them your car ever again.

Forgiveness is difficult when the person who hurt you doesn't acknowledge that they did anything wrong, but it's possible. Rebuilding a trusting relationship in that situation is impossible.

Next time she asks you to forgive, ask for a detailed written explanation of what it is that she feels she needs forgiveness for. You'll be waiting a while because she doesn't think she needs forgiveness, she just wants you to pretend it never happened.

I have mostly forgiven my own parents for what they did to me and I do hope they are having a nice life, but there is no way I'm laying myself open to have them treat me badly again, so I do not see them.

Forgiveness for me isn’t about the person who wronged you. It’s about you deciding to not give it any more of your time or energy. You don’t need an apology to forgive. You can just say to yourself, she did that because she’s got her own issues which she refuses to work on and that’s just sad. Then put boundaries in place for the future. To me forgiveness isn’t “let’s pretend it never happened and go back to normal”.

I totally disagree with @Minglingpringle. It's not and should never be your job to enable your husband's relationship with his parents.

She sounds like a fucking sociopath. I'd never be forgiving that either. I'd be NC forever and over my dead body would she get a chance to manipulate my kids.

Hell no! I would not forgive and I would not forget. I'd also be very wary of allowing any children to be close to them or see them alone because they are emotionally abusive people.

When you forgive, you do it for yourself not for the other person. Read 'The Book of Forgiving' by Desmond Tutu.

In general I am on the side of forgiveness, and I could forgive my MIL meddling in my wedding, even to that unhinged extent, but asking your DH to choose between you and them is unforgivable and I wouldn’t blame you for never getting over it. I’m sorry OP.

I agree with this. You don’t need to forgive or forget. You can learn from your experience and keep your heart locked away from her forever.

But you can also enable your husband to have a full relationship with her. There’s nothing to be gained by allowing their relationship to be ruined. As long has he understands how you feel and supports you, and it sounds like he does, you can leave them to get on with it, while being polite and a bit friendly to her when necessary, but not getting drawn into more contact than is necessary.

Rise above it as has already been said. And pity her as @Aria999 said.

I love this post. And a brilliant one from @GrumpyOldCrone too.

The bit that I really would struggle to forgive is trying to suck everyone else into her perspective and threatening to cut them off if they don't. This is not new behaviour. Your DH would have grown up instinctively knowing that she would abandon him if he didn't tow the line. People like this are extremely dangerous emotionally. They can destroy you as they don't accept that your feelings are valid in the slightest. Only their feelings count and they will annihilate you if you don't accept that.

I would not forgive that unless she had some sort of damascene conversion, realised what she had done, could articulate it and begged forgiveness.

I would go no contact altogether.

I can't abide people who can't apologise for their actions. To me, it shows a complete lack of humility and basic care. They think themselves above it, no matter how much they've hurt someone and demonstrating that their pride/ego always comes first for them. There are no lessons learned.

I couldn't (and haven't) 'forgiven' or 'forgotten' in the past when there hasn't been a heartfelt apology, because my feelings aren't just an inconvenience or obstacle to what someone else wants.

Oh gosh @Rattymcratty she sounds unhinged!

I have a similar situation with mil. She did something a few years back that upset us all. I don’t really care about how she treated me, but I really struggle to forgive and forget how much she upset my lovely dh and our little ds at the time.
I tried to engage her in discussion both face to face and via e-mail when it all kicked off, but she point blank refused. We are quite low contact since and dh is keen to build bridges, but I really struggle to move on. Probably because I’m the kind of person who sorts stuff out in life in general. Mil is very much a “sweep it under the carpet” type. We are so different and I don’t know how it will ever get better.
I have one of those faces that tells you exactly how I feel, so spending time together is awkward 😂 I try my best for dh’s sake, but it’s not easy. I do sometimes feel sad for her that her relationship with dh and our kids has changed so much due to her emotional illiteracy. But I’m still mostly fuming!!

what your mil did sounds terrible. I don’t think I could move on without at least an honest apology. I hope your dh has your back. That’s key in these situations I think.

Ooof. I generally believe in forgiveness, but that is a lot to forgive. Not surprised you haven't.