To not forgive?

This, exactly this. My guess is that she is just starting to realise that, if you are keeping your distance from her, if and when you have children, she will miss out.

Only you know and only time will tell if you can ever forgive what she did but she has shown her colours and I would be wary especially around any future children.

Tell DH exactly what you said in your last two paragraphs, She’s never taken responsibility for what she did , never fully apologised or shown remorse.
Until she does this how can you ‘forgive her and move on’. The ball is in her court.

She sounds vile. I wouldn't forgive or forget, not one bit. She's feeling guilty she has ruined her sons wedding, she doesn't give a hoot about you. She wants you to fall in line and behave.

I wouldn't forgive them either. Nasty and toxic. I hope your husband is fully backing you here because I would want nothing to do with her. What if you have children? Is she going to insult you for naming your own child? Disown you for breastfeeding instead of formula? Insult you for not giving her equal say in your parenting? Can you imagine a child in that toxic dynamic.

Your husband can have a relationship with them if he chooses, but you and any future children won't.

I think it would be good if you could let go of any anger, if you can, for your sake. But, I’d really struggle to do that in this situation.

As for what she wants - I don’t think that should take up any time or energy for you to be honest. She isn’t remorseful and is likely to do similar in the future.

I guess your DH might want some kind of relationship with his parents. That’s up to him.

But you are both totally reasonable to never see them again.

I second having a renewal with all of the loveliest people in your life. Just those that make you feel good. Don’t sink to rubbing their noses in it though, just live your life regardless of their views.

I have to say OP that I felt angry on your behalf reading your account of what happened.

Oh wow I’m not sure I could forgive that either sounds horrible and she sounds toxic

To me, forgiveness is about acceptance. Accepting what happened and letting it go so it no longer has any power over my thoughts and feelings. It is not something I do for others. It is for me. And it does not mean that the people who have wronged me are allowed back into my life. Your MIL behaved atrociously. It is absolutely fine for you to accept that, yet not want her in your life. It is less about what she did and more about what she is. She isn't someone I would want in my life either.

Nope. I wouldn’t forgive all that.

Have a huge party for a significant wedding anniversary, as a sort of wedding reception replacement, and don't invite them but make sure they know all about it.

Nope, I would no way be able to forgive that, but (not victim blaming!) your Dh ought to have told her to fuck right off from the start and meant it. He sounds like he’s in the FOG and has now after a mere 6 months gone back on his anger and disappointment to be back in touch with her?

@Rattymcratty

What is forgiveness? What does forgiveness look like? Does everyone deserve it?

What is forgiveness? I think it means different thing to different people, especially when it comes to which side of the 'forgiveness' they're on!

For me, forgiveness is being able to 'let go' within myself of whatever the issue is and the emotions involved ie resentment, pain, anger, fear, sorrow. That is my internal forgiveness and is between me and my emotional well being. It has nothing to do with the person who wronged/hurt me.

What does forgiveness look like? If the person wishes to extend the 'internal' forgiveness to the person who wronged them then I suppose it would look like some type of 'normalization' of the relationship between the two people.

Does everyone deserve forgiveness? Hell, no. But again, there is forgiveness and there is 'forgiveness'. Some victims feel they will never completely unless they let go the negative feelings. They forgive the perpetrator for their own emotional healing. I think we see this most often in cases of criminal behaviours where the victim 'forgives' the perp so that the victim can move on in their lives.

What forgiveness isn't is a blanket 'Oh it's OK that you wronged me/disrupted my life/hurt me deeply'. And it certainly isn't at the behest of the 'wrongdoer'. It cannot be demanded or expected, especially if there is no acknowledgement or remorse. And there is no law that says we must forgive simply because someone asks us to.

And finally, even if we do choose (and it is our choice) to forgive the 'wrongdoer' that certainly doesn't mean that that person has a right to be admitted back into our lives again. We can say "Yes, I can forgive you for XXX, but I still choose to keep my distance from you (or) exclude you from my life". And we need give them no explanation for that decision. They know what they did.

Could I forgive your MiL for the wedding debacle? I probably could, because to me it's the marriage not the wedding that is important. I am not criticizing you for feeling differently. BUT, whether or not I'd choose to admit my MiL back into my life is another thing. And I'd say no, I wouldn't. Not because of the wedding debacle, but because she (and FiL) are controlling and interfering. I wouldn't have anyone in my life who felt they had the right to control me AND to 'punish' me if I didn't do what they said.

She remembered fondly planning her wedding with her mum
She had her own wedding, so being U right there tbh
Did/do you have your own Mum OP?

and as she had no DD that she should have been able to plan our wedding.
Did she impose like this with your BIL or are they still single?

She wasn’t happy with just been included in wedding preparations but actually wanted to plan the wedding.
God, I'd have said I had a wedding planner hired and back off.

Every time we made a decision I.E. what kind of cake we wanted she’d fly off the handle that it wasn’t the cake she thought we should have etc. This went on for a good year and it was seriously unhinged.
Completely agree, especially as you were footing the bill. Total control freakery on her part.

DH tried to gently explain that while we do listen to her opinions fundamentally it is our day and we do make the final decisions.
Perfectly reasonable and needed to be said.

All hell broke loose, FIL got involved and we were told to either make it ‘right’ with MIL or they were done with us.
Toxic. Emotional blackmail. FIL is an enabler/flying monkey doing her bidding.

DH was inconsolable for days at the idea of being disowned and finally he was told to choose either me or them.
Outrageous. He should have gone NC there and then. Needs counselling. He is still enmeshed.

They then told DH brothers to choose between us or them, and forbade them to come to the wedding.
How old are his brothers? How did they respond?
This is bullying behaviour from a narc.

We were about to pay the remaining balance on the venue/meal but the whole day just felt ruined.
Understandable.

I listened to DH beg to not be disowned, that he still loved his parents but they were cold.
He should have called their bluff and took them at their word.
Very dysfunctional. Matriarch insisting on getting their way and all scared of/placating/enabling her. Is there any cultural issue at play?

DH has told MIL I’m upset due to me not having the wedding we deserved.
It's not only that though, is it? It's the complete contempt they have for their own son, the lack of respect shown to you, the control and domineering attitude (which will extend to any grandchildren, mark my words) and the infantilisation of you both, when you were grown, paying adults.

MIL thinks it was our choice to pull the plug (well, it was but our hand was forced by them) and recently she laughed that ''Well, of course we would have come.'' I’m also think there should be some remorse on that DH was told to choose between us.
No, she sulked, spat out her dummy, made ultimatums and "won" through blackmail. No sign of remorse or acknowledgement/owning her toxic behaviour.

We ended up having a small registry wedding in the summer, no wedding party, no wedding reception just a quick ‘I do’ and a little lunch.
On your own or with just witnesses or did BIL/PIL attend? Or did you do the equivalent of eloping?

Friends are the family you choose for yourselves OP.
I'd be highly tempted on your anniversary/an anniversary in the future to renew your vows (after COL crisis eases obvs) and just invite who you want and have the ceremony and celebration you dreamed of.

You also have a DH problem if not on the same page. What made him cave after half a year?

Goodness - what a horrible series of events for you and dh. No - she can fuck right off. I went no contact with a sibling and it’s been for the best. Even if she apologises the level of control she wanted to exert is batshit crazy so you wouldn’t wNt to expose yourself and dh to that again and until she understands and is remorseful for her actions, then she is more than likely to go off the deep end again.

Get her to fuck! It wouldn’t even be a question just a flat out no!

She doesn’t want forgiveness. That would imply she knows she’s done wrong and has regret.

whe she wants, for her own convenience, is for you to sweep it all under the rug, pretend it didn’t happen, move past it, get over it, never talk about it again and all carry on as normal.

not cus she feels rotten, not because she knows she did wrong and can’t live with herself. Simply because it would be easier for her.

mark my words, have kids and she’ll be the MIL turning up at the hospital 2 minutes after the baby has crowned demanding to hold her precious first grand child and have him overnight from one week old etc

I don't think there's any need to complicate things with philosophy really. You don't want anything to do with your MiL unless she says she was wrong, apologises and demonstrates that there will be no recurrence of whatever it was she did. It might be more straightforward if your DH just passed that on as the message, rather than talking about forgiveness and what it means. Your MiL wants to move forward with an amicable relationship and no further reference to The Bad Thing. Just tell the woman what she can do to make it happen, or tell her it's never going to happen. Much clearer for all.

Keep her away from you - if you have children keep further away. What a first class bitch. No contact all round would be best but your DH seems trauma bonded to this dysfunctional woman. She’s trying to weed her way back in. F…. Off!!! 🌺for you.

She doesn't want your forgiveness. She wants you to just forget it ever happened, and to not take any responsibility for her actions.

My MIL has done 3 things which aren't as serious as what your MIL did. I will never forgive her for those things, but we now have a cordial relationship and in other respects she's faultless. I won't ever stand in the way of her relationships with DH and our DC. I've contextualised what she did and said. Her wrongs can't be righted because those were one-off times that I'll never have back, just like your wedding, but life has to go on.

In your shoes, I'd tell her baldly all the above. That you've not forgotten and won't ever forgive, that the responsibility for your and DH's hurt is 100% hers in your eyes and that will never change; that you don't want to hear any more about it and can move on. Whatever her reaction, ignore it (she won't like it, I'd wager). The point is to tell her what you think, when you're ready, and put it behind you so you can move on. It's for YOUR benefit, not hers. For YOU to move on, not her. She will take responsibility for her actions for ever onwards, in the form of her relationship with you both being forever tarnished. It's not meant to be a punishment. It's just what it is: consequences.

This

To really want true forgiveness she needs to be truly sorry, say what she did/said was wrong, she should never have acted in such manner. That she knows it can’t be undone but she wishes it could. Forgiveness means you accept the apology, forgetting means you move forward. It does not mean you condone the actions in any way, it does not mean the hurt diminishes

I really wouldn't want someone like that in my life. I'd always be thinking about what's next.

I would never even consider forgiving their behaviour, good grief, it doesn’t get much worse than that. I would let DH have whatever sort of relationship he wanted with his family but wouldn’t have anything to do with them.

@Rattymcratty

Forgiveness isn’t about the other person, it’s about you. It’s about making a conscious decision to let go of all the hurt, anger and upset that you feel towards the other person, in betterment of your own emotional and mental health. It’s about not allowing them to rent anymore space in your mind.

It’s like the serenity prayer, having the serenity, courage and wisdom to understand that you cannot change what’s happened or who the other person is.

Your PIL’s did a despicable thing. Are they worthy of forgiveness? Probably not. But equally, are you worthy of emotional and mental peace? Yes, of course you are! They don’t need to know if you can forgive for your own peace of mind. It matters not one whit if they know or not. Because you aren’t forgiving them for them, but for you.

Write your PIL’s a letter, explaining why you cancelled your wedding and their rôle in it. Tell them that until they understand what they did wrong, and they can fully explain to you what they did and why it was wrong, you have no wish to interact with them. Tell them that even once they understand their part in why you cancelled the wedding, you still don’t want to have contact with them. Explain to them that it’s because of their manipulation. Explain how you love your DH so much that it was heart breaking to watch him go through all the pain that they put him through.

You don’t have to post this letter. But sometimes, just getting all that emotion out there can be cathartic.

You don’t have to have a relationship with them, nor do your DC. But you do need to have strong boundaries around your DH seeing them. Your DH needs to ensure that he doesn’t tell you anything about them and that he doesn’t turn into their flying monkey. And you absolutely must tell him this 🌺

Bloody hell. She didn't forget your birthday or something, she was a complete and utter cow, you didn't get the wedding you wanted and you're supposed to act as though it doesn't matter?

No way.

She’s asked DH what she can say/do for me to forgive her

She should be asking you
Out of interest, what could she say or do - is there anything? - for you to forgive her and what form would you want that to take?