To not forgive?

Yes, if he doesn’t care then that makes a massive difference.

From what you have written I wouldn't have anything further to do with her.

Your husband can have whatever relationship he wants but she would never enter my home and I would never set foot in hers.

You were very brave/ naive to go ahead marrying into such an utterly toxic dynamic.

She sounds truly ugly.

I wouldn't be making ANY effort to forgive and forget.

Why is your husband back involved with people whom have caused such grief in your lives?

Don't rush into having children with him.

Such toxic people sour the experience of children so much.

Do not be bullied to forgive such truly dreadful people.

Your family must be absolutely horrified.

And sometimes people have to choose.

He is chosing to make OP suffer and doesn't seem to give AF.

I told my husband I couldn't live a life with his mother in it. And if that meant walking away from him then that's what I was more than happy to do at that point.

We have one life. It's to short and precious to live it putting up with such colossal twats.

Some people are suggesting that you insist your husband doesn’t contact his mother again.

I think if you did that, you would be behaving nearly as badly as her. Forcing the poor man to choose.

You simply need to be clear about in what ways you personally don’t want to be impacted by her.

This, with jingle bells on. Fucking hell.

Sorry to hear your MIL broke you up, but you probably dodged a bullet there. If her son was so enmeshed in her toxic behaviour it would have carried on throughout your marriage and impacted on any children you might have had.

No one has to forgive.

@Rattymcratty theres a really interesting podcast on the We can do hard things podcast by Glennon Doyle called How to put wrong things right. I recommend you listen to it.

It really helped me understand how in order to be sorry you put the work in first.

I would neither forget, nor forgive, and to be frank I’m shocked and appalled that your DH is back in contact with them. I would have a serious talk with him and tell him that if it is his expectation that, at any point in the future, you reconcile with them, then it’s best to call it quits now as this won’t work moving forward, and particularly if children are ever involved.

@aloris

I think people sometimes use "forgive and forget" as a platitude to get away with treating others badly and never having to face any consequences for doing so. Even if you are basing your concept of forgiveness on the bible, it doesn't say "forgive and forget." It says to forgive 70 X 7 times, but the expectation is that the person will actually apologize and turn their effort towards doing better next time, not that they just steamroll over you again and again, and get mad at you if you don't let them.
^^^^
Perfectly put.

I think it's important to have a proper discussion about what happened and tell her exactly what you feel about it.

This. Sorry to hear this and thinking of you x

I have been in a VERY similar position to you OP, except in my case my DP chose MIL and we also broke up. It was the worst time of my life and you have all my sympathy.

I will never forgive her. She was not only not apologetic, she took pride in splitting us up. I can't forgive that.

Surely even God only forgives those who truly repent?

Having said that... Your MIL has offered flowers etc, is she trying to make it up but without knowing what you really need? Is it worth your DH telling her straight that what you need is for her to really reflect and acknowledge what she did wrong? Maybe she really doesn't know/thinks she's already done it?

It’s not her job but she can just keep out of it and not be a barrier to it.

Yeah. Wrecking your wedding might be forgivable, but what she did to the man you love is horrible.

I listened to DH beg to not be disowned, that he still loved his parents but they were cold. I had to comfort him in the foetus position for hours.

I could never forgive someone for this. I mean maybe if they were very deeply sorry and repentant, eventually, but basically no.

I applaud you, very well analysed! I wish I'd done as you suggest to my fucking MIL and in-laws in general!

I heard a talk once by a Catholic priest, who talked about forgiveness. A key point he made that I'd never heard before, is that forgiveness does not mean accepting that what was done to you was ok. It also does not mean that you have to put yourself into a position where the other person can hurt you again. It mainly means you give up the idea of getting revenge on the person, if I understood the priest correctly. But creating boundaries so the person does not get a repeat opportunity to treat you badly, is not the same thing as getting revenge. You don't have to feel guilty about creating boundaries, if that is what you need to be able to move forward with peace.

I think people sometimes use "forgive and forget" as a platitude to get away with treating others badly and never having to face any consequences for doing so. Even if you are basing your concept of forgiveness on the bible, it doesn't say "forgive and forget." It says to forgive 70 X 7 times, but the expectation is that the person will actually apologize and turn their effort towards doing better next time, not that they just steamroll over you again and again, and get mad at you if you don't let them.

For me, there are three separate but interconnected issues here.

One is the emotional and mental energy this situation is costing you. In one sense, forgiveness means no longer dwelling it in your own heart and mind. Letting it go, if you like. Not easy to do - part of us demands to know why she could behave like that, wonders if it was really all her, or maybe some little part of it was us being in the wrong. But this is a waste of energy.

The second is her understanding and remorse - of which there is precisely zero. If there was at least some acknowledgment of bad behaviour on her part and the hurt it caused, then you have a basis from which to move forward. But there doesn’t seem to be any in this case. A bunch of flowers means nothing, if not accompanied by some evidence of self-awareness.

The third is what kind of relationship you could have with her, if you decided to have one at all. She attempted to control your wedding, down to the kind of cake you had - and when you wouldn’t give in to her demands, employed the most horrendous emotional blackmail on her own children. And she doesn’t see she did anything wrong. So if you agree to have contact, how long do you thing it will before she is trying to control your house, hobbies, lifestyle….. pregnancy, birth, parenting.

I am very sorry for you, and your poor DH. Love him, OP, and support him. It does seem that he is on the same page as you in that he didn’t want his mother controlling your wedding either. At the same time, he is their son, and that bond is hard to break.

I suggest that your DH would benefit from therapy to help him understand the dysfunctional nature of his family of origin. That, and your love, will be healing for him. You don’t have to have contact with his parents. He can, if he wants to, don’t try to stop him. But be prepared for them to try to manipulate him, and you through him.

If you try and have forgiveness as a standard way to live your life, it makes life much easier. It doesn't mean you have to have the person around all the time necessarily- just that basic attitude.

Forgiveness helps interpersonally, but also feels better than getting inwardly angry over the same things over and over again.

She's a total nut job. you and your husband should go full no contact

Forgiveness and reconciliation are two completely different things.

For your MIL, I’d choose neither.

“Your actions caused irreparable harm. It’ll never be okay, remembering the damage you chose to do.”

At a guess, I’d say either you’re pregnant or may plan to be, or MIL is hoping you will be, and she’s realized that if she can’t get you back under control, she won’t have open access to grandchildren so she can relive her motherhood.

What an utter bitch. I'd never forgive her. I'd be NC forever. FUCK HER.

"DH was inconsolable for days at the idea of being disowned and finally he was told to choose either me or them."

"I listened to DH beg to not be disowned, that he still loved his parents but they were cold. I had to comfort him in the foetus position for hours."

I feel upset just reading this. Your poor poor husband. How could they treat their own child like this? 😥

No. just no. I would be telling them after the way they treated your darling husband, their own son, and ruining your wedding, there is no forgiving or coming back from that.

I'm so sorry you and DH didn't get the wedding you deserved.

I could probably forgive because I wouldn’t let them occupy real estate in my head. However,I would never forget and have at best a low contact relationship.

Sorry you went through that.

I would never, ever forgive her for that. Ever. I'd tell her to fuck right off and then fuck off further.