To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

This government is corrupt and has stolen billions from the taxpayer, that’s true.

Bur that doesn’t mean that the ballooning welfare bill is also acceptable. The number of net contributors is shrinking while the net recipients increase. This situation is unsustainable. And benefit fraud is more common than reported or found. You only have to look at MN. Though there is a strange phenomenon on MN where people get very defensive over benefit fraud. There must be a lot of people on here who are robbing the taxpayer themselves, if you look at the way they defend fraudsters and police onto OP if someone starts a thread about a relative of friend being a fraudster.

I'd rather they ended subsidised food and drink for MPs. Tax payers are charged 17 million to subsidise MPs food. Please someone on here start a petition. Let's see how they like it, living like normal folk, paying for their own food.

I broadly agree.
I would like to see some better auditing of subsidised housing as that doesn’t seem to be well managed. Housing situation is desperate and this could identify subletting and empty properties.

I’m not sure if that’s as effective a tactic as it used to be. The pandemic fallout plus an aging population plus the NHS waiting lists means that more of us are touched by illness and disability, whether it is themselves or friends and family.

I personally know people who used to work and have a normal life, fight to get a paltry level of benefits that don’t even cover the essentials. Many PIP claims are turned down even when quite strongly evidenced because they hope people will just give up and die. It’s really disgusting. I spoke to a man who was quite anti disability claimants until his daughter was diagnosed with MS.

Why not? Plenty of people have ISA’s. That’s tax avoidance.

plenty of people gift homes to their children then survive the 7 years meaning no IHT payable. That’s tax avoidance.

plenty of people hold assets in trust. Or in companies. Not their personal names. To minimise iht. That’s tax avoidance.

tradies/cleaners/dog walkers who work cash in hand. Potential tax avoidance.

is it only morally wrong if it’s the rich who are doing it?

I think so. If all above board, I don’t think it’s immoral not to pay tax you don’t owe.

@Girlsjustwannahavefundamentalrights
Please apply for your PIP. There are people who can do the process for you they may take 25% of any backdated pay but this is money you are entitled to.

I'm not an expert but help my relative and we used a disability solicitor specialising in autism and they took on some of the stress.

I think we started at https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.disabilityrightsuk.org/&ved=2ahUKEwjEsaugrbaCAxW_Q0EAHRSgC5QQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3FHm_ONTkX_skqbhFANs81

HRTFT but legally correct and above board doesn’t mean morally and ethically ok though right?

Indeed. Couldn’t agree more.

We need to start seriously addressing the appalling inequality in the UK. We also need to start taxing wealth properly so that everyone has a better chance at living a comfortable life.

@littleblackcat27 I imagine that @rwalker is using one of the many LEGAL tax avoidance methods to minimise the level of IHT payable.

nothing wrong with that. It’s all above board and as long as it’s done correctly no issues.

Would be interesting to know why the HMRC and Tax Justice estimates are so wildly different. Also tax ‘avoided’ through legal loopholes need to be excluded from the figures.

I guess some people may object more to benefits claimants than tax avoiders because their perception is that the tax avoider is just trying to keep money they have actually earned in their pockets whilst benefits claimants are asking the taxpayers to subsidise them (or to pay for them entirely, in some cases). Not the way I see it as I know several people who genuinely cannot be expected to work and I feel a bit ‘there but for the grace of God’ with them but cracking down would surely mean more money for people like them rather than those choosing not to work as a lifestyle choice.

Elections are coming so it's time to demonise the poor and immigrants to win Tory votes!

Then maybe they should start by making it illegal…?

@FFSMabel

amazon was paying living wage btw

I totally agree the government could tackle tax fraud. However it's always dressed up as legal tax avoidance. It's always been the case if you avoid / evade tax you are creative, if you over claim benefits your a criminal.

The MP's who fraudulently over claim thousands for their second homes far outweigh the costs of overpaid housing benefit. The breakfast receipts which are higher than a whole weeks jobseekers allowance. The tax schemes that celebrities use and then say they didn't know they were dodgy. How many people still support these MP's or celebrities who fraud the government out of millions more than any benefit claimant ever do?

Why is deliberately not paying enough tax seen as morally wrong while claiming too much benefits is seen as as legally wrong. It is possible to do both at the same time of course.

But the government and media like to whip up a storm, maintaining the ideology of the undeserving. Keeping the plebs in their place pacifies the masses, so that they look to blame the poorest in society while making excuses for the rich who rob the coffers.

I'm pleased there is 1 person on MN who knows what they are talking about 🤔

The arrogance on here is sometimes astounding, in my opinion, obviously.

Lots of tradespeople do 'homers', aka cash in hand jobs, nobody few people complains if it means they get a decent tradesman at short notice/cheaper, do they?

It’s not a matter of either/or. They should be cracking down on both.

^

This

You seem to be suggesting that all the people who are are evading taxes are rich which is obviously not the case. All the ones I know are builders, cleaners, carers etc. If you hate rich people, just say it.

@MissLou0 thanks for sharing stats noone can argue with! It annoys me so much that my little business pays tonnes in Corp tax, I pay tonnes in personal and dividend tax yet the mega rich pay nothing - even Amazon has a tax deal and pays No corporation tax https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jun/01/amazon-uk-services-main-division-pay-no-corporation-tax-for-second-year-in-row-tax-credit-government-super-deduction-scheme

It sickens me. Proportionately the working people in this country are excessively taxed.

My DD was paid £250 towards £650 rent when she was unemployed. How the F are people who are struggling meant to find £400 extra when they don't receive that in benefits- she has a disability and was told by the police to move out as she was at risk. Its disgusting.

We have to get shut of this government and get someone in who gets a grip of tax avoidance and demonisation of those on benefits.

Are there actual numbers and not just a graph? The benefit fraud figure looks tiny in comparison to the two huge columns however anything sitting on a scale of billions isn't actually tiny! Both need looked at, of course we know where tories start......

YADNBU.
Its disgusting the lengths people have to go to in the UK to get financial support from the state. I cannot understand why people vote Conservative because they are the decision makers who allow this gross unfairness to continue. It’s disgraceful how many people are treated by the UK welfare system; imo its the worst aspect of UK society. The theft of taxpayers money at the other end of the scale is nothing short of criminal yet nothing done.

There is a raft of difference between tax planning and legal avoidance than fraud.

I know of highly intelligent people with PhDs who will not work more than 15/16 hours lest it affects their universal credit. These are people who are fit and well but would rather maximise benefits and minimise work. It is legal but morally very wrong. There is work for them to do.

Jobs would soon disappear if the tax system became more punitive.

Claiming for the genuine needs to be easier.

🙄 another thread of people thinking they know what they are talking about.

Benefit fraud is a mix of small scale fraud and then a large amount of deliberate fraud. People owning houses and setting up false claims.

People with multiple bank accounts and huge sums of money (inheritance). Yes they do leave it in the bank because they think they can get away with it.

Living together as a couple but claiming to be single for full UC.

These can be detected, investigated and losses recovered.

Tax evasion is harder to investigate. Yes, the government should go after them and does when things like the Panama papers reveal info. For all those people jumping up and down about going after tax evasion it would be great if you could explain how you think that can happen (or does that not fit the narrative?).

People should vote with their feet on companies like Amazon where they don’t pay a living wage / treat staff appallingly / etc. but they don’t because, when push comes to shove, people say things but don’t act.

This thread shows why the Tories keep getting voted in. The lax attitude and whataboutery about fraud from lefties drives people who aren’t even on the right to vote conservative just to keep these batshit views away from power.