To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

From what I can gather from reading the proposals, a lot more people will be put in the LCW group rather than LCWRA. the ones already in LCWRA won't face any re-assessments unless a change in circumstances ( this seems ludicrous to me, people already seem to be going years without being re-assessed. People with severe mental health conditions will rightly be protected and be awarded LCWRA. I worry about some of the client group I help, those with dependency issues in particular as no way would most of them cope with looking for work. The report seems to say that they have consulted lots of people's views, medical professionals, charities etc and we hear what you are saying but are going to ignore it anyway ! I do think change is needed but am worried that inflicting more financial hardship on people with even 'milder' mh issues could just cause things to spiral. Worried also as to where they are suddenly going to get thousands more talking therapists from and that a lot of people don't actually find this kind of thing helpful. I work in benefits advice and already getting clients extremely anxious about what the changes will mean for them. can't imagine what it is going to be like in eighteen months or so when loads of people start being awarded LCW instead of LCWRA.

I guess it would boil down to whether you are still providing 35 hours of care to him a week even if he was working. If only working part time then it's likely you would be and there would be no problem still claiming carers allowance. No-one ever checks up on what caring is being done anyway, as long as the cared for person is in receipt of the disability benefit, someone can claim carers.

@XenoBitch thank you so much for that information. I'm guessing then that people who already claim, will be looked at later. I feel so sorry for everyone who has been put in this worrying position and I feel sorry anyone who becomes ill and can't work in the future. Thanks to everyone on here who keeps posting information and advice.

Changes to the WCA are from 2025, and for new claimants. I will be honest, and say I don' know how it will affect people like yourself who are registered as a carer for a loved one.
I hope someone that knows more can answer that for you, as it must be an anxious time for you too.

@XenoBitch have you any idea, roughly, when these changes might come into effect? Also, I'm a full time carer for my dh, I get Carers allowance as he is in receipt of PIP. I wonder how these changes will effect carers. At the moment there is no requirement on me to find work or prepare for work due to him being on PIP. Obviously, if he has to seek work then I suppose I will too. I can hardly accompany him into a workplace as his carer, like some kind of assistance dog! He also had support workers who give me a break twice a week. I suppose we'll lose them too as, again, they can hardly accompany him to whatever job /work experience placement he might get forced to undertake.

Thanks for the informative posts @Crispedia

I remember when the announcement came about scrapping the WCA. I am on LCWRA and not on PIP, so the changes will affect me. I was an anxious mess. Like you said, nothing will happen overnight, and I do take comfort in that.

And screenshot of OBR report predicting 371,000 less people qualifying for the extra £390 a month due to no longer being put in the ESA or UC LWRCA group. (This will be people with mobility problems or mental health problems. Only those who get psychosis will get people put in LWRCA). This is on top of cuts to out of the work sickness benefits introduced under Conservatives a few years ago when old style ESA was amalgamated into UC. For example when I am eventually made to migrate to UC from ESA I will be getting £30 less a week than currently and which will go down a further £20 in time due to £20 of what I get will be only transitional coverage from ESA to UC. UC does not have the disability premiums that old style ESA has for some claimants who get certain rates of PIP. No new claimants get this.

Just over 2 million UC claimants were working according to last years figures. Over 28 million people are employed, plus 4 million self employed. Not even a large minority.

Forgot to attach screenshot of OBR report in my comment above saying only expect 10,000 people to return to employment from the expected by 2027/2928 371,000 of those who will get less financial support.

Sorry not read through most recent posts but just sharing a good summary on Twitter by a social policy expert on how yesterday’s budget will affect the sick and disabled. As we knew, the whole thing is a cost cutting exercise on some sick and disabled claimants (particularly those with considerable mental health problems) with no care of the damaging effect on those sick and disabled who it will effect. The OBR report even acknowledges tightening the WCA criteria is expected by by 2028-29, to mean 𝟑𝟕𝟏,𝟎𝟎𝟎 fewer people will be protected from conditionality & from a higher rate of benefit, yet they only expect 10,000 of these to get back into employment! So just a cruel financial cut for 361,000 people. This group of people with be too sick to work but will get the same as someone unemployed but fit and healthy. Unemployment support is set low as it it’s supposed to be temporary.

X/Twitter thread:

“It's understandable, given that I think the Government has wilfully blurred the lines, but there's been some misreading of what yesterday's announcements will mean for ill & disabled people so I thought it was worth offering my interpretation of where things stand... [1/10]

The key announcement was planned changes to the criteria for the Work Capability Assessment (WCA), to kick in from 2025, meaning fewer people with mobility issues & mental health problems will be declared to have 'limited capability for work related activity' (LCWRA) [2/10]

People in this group get an additional £390 a month & are exempt from conditionality. Many people will instead be placed in the 'limited capability for work' (LCW) group, where they would lose this additional payment & be required to 'prepare for' but not apply for work [3/10]

Initially these changes would just affect new applicants, but increasingly also people who are being reassessed. The OBR expects to see 371,000 fewer people in the more protected group by 2028-29 than under current rules & most of these would instead be in the LCW group [4/10]

These proposals are deeply worrying, particularly as the OBR only expects 10,000 of this 371,000 to have moved into work by this time. So people will have lower benefits & more pressure & threats, but are unlikely to have found the jobs this is supposed to be all about [5/10]

However, some of the harsher threats that have been announced - around people losing benefits altogether if they fail to seek work for six months, or being pushed into mandatory work placements after 18 months - would not currently affect people in the LCWRA or LCW groups [6/10]

These threats are aimed at people subject to 'full work requirements', which would mean they've either never flagged an illness/disability or have been assessed as 'fit for work' (although, of course, neither of these is guaranteed to mean the person is not ill/disabled) [7/10]

None of this is to downplay concerns about the planned reforms, but it's important for ill & disabled people already in the system to know that these changes will not happen overnight & that they are not likely to suddenly be expected to seek work under threat of sanctions [8/10]

However, there are worrying longer-term implications as the Government has said it would like to ultimately scrap the WCA & leave conditionality entirely at work coach discretion. This would be incredibly dangerous, especially given the harsher punishments being planned [9/10]

There will be time to scrutinise & challenge these proposed changes before they are implemented & there will of course be an election before then too!

What this group needs is security & genuine support offered on a voluntary basis, not more pressure & threats of cuts [10/10] “

Leaders of Brexit always wanted to leave EU so there was less regulation and more money to be made by those at the top.

I start to think that the main reason for getting out of the EU is to do whatever they want. Obviously, if the UK was in the EU this wouldn't happen because they need to obey EU law. I haven't heard of any European country stopping benefits because of an investigation. It is a disgrace that they target the most vulnerable. They can make hundreds of excuses for COVID, etc. The truth is that most working people claim UC because they cannot afford private renting with their salaries. Don't want to mention targeting disable people. It is dirgace.

Yes. They make so many "mistakes" and get it wrong so often that it goes way beyond mere incompetence and starts to look deliberate.

The only people who say things like "if you've got nothing to hide, what's wrong with checks?" have never claimed benefits.

I'm currently being investigated for supposedly not declaring £13k in savings that I don't have. That's the issue

If you're not doing anything wrong then what's wrong with checks?

If you’ve read the full thread you’ll know what’s wrong with that statement.

And if you’re talking about reporting people you don’t think should be claiming disability benefits, just stop and think about that for a moment. Can anyone really tell how disabled someone is just by looking at them ? Unless you live with someone full time, and you know how their disability affects them 24 hours a day, unless you’re privy to their medical records and have the necessary medical training to understand them, and are also privy to the information on their benefit claim, then you’re really not qualified to say whether or not they ‘deserve’ the benefits they’re claiming are you ?

These claimants have been through the DWP process, they’ve provided medical evidence to support their claim, and they’ve been assessed face to face before benefit has been awarded. Yes, a few fraudsters do get through - happens in any system. But just because someone ‘doesn’t look disabled’ doesn’t mean they’re a fraudster. Sickness and disability comes in all shapes and sizes.

Agree re both, no, people should not be allowed to claim benefits they are not entitled to, and have seen many threads here about whether people should report such cases, so yes it does happen and many of us have known of people doing it. If you're not doing anything wrong then what's wrong with checks? Of course companies should be made to pay taxes too, but they have teams of lawyers and accountants doing this for them, which would require a great deal of time and money to investigate.

Just because they aren’t at the moment doesn’t mean to say they can’t be in the future. Regardless, the government obviously needs more money and inheritance tax is a lot more palatable than increased taxes on people’s monthly income. Most inheritance is created by inflated property prices, so not ‘earned’ money.

Taxes are not hypothecated, though politicians like to hint that they are to gull the voters.

I agree about inheritance tax - my sisters were so against it. DM was only a teacher/DH for a few years, and my sis's in health and the civil service - the 'wealth' came solely from DM's property value increase.

Yet neither of my sisters could equate their salaries with taxation; nor our DM's wealth with unearned income - dear fucking god i thought, what the fuck else pays your wages - mum the teacher, sister 1 the nurse and sister 2 the civil servant other than taxes.

I wish they had increased inheritance tax. Inheritance is a privilege to only the wealthy, it’s additional money that is not somebody’s ‘living’. I would not object to paying higher taxes on inheritance, especially if the funds could be directed at the NHS

I had my eyes seriously opened c.1980 when I lived a year in Sunderland after living in SE England. It was like living in a different country, as I had previously done. The NE was a different world to the SE.

These differences still exist. Moving is not a solution, the SE is overpopulated already....

Just move a great ton of jobs towards all the edges, cos the UK ain't some big geographical flat mass to shift things around on.

If we don't have the jobs here then we gotta move, just like my dad and uncles did after they fought and lived through ww2 and Korea, fucked off with how it turned out.

So, maybe I'm the remnants of the trash left behind, certainly feels like it,

That’s spot on. The idea is to introduce conditionality and sanctions on vulnerable people the governments’ own system has already identified as too sick to work. There’s no onus on employers to take on these people and no guarantee that all these magical problem solving WFH vacancies will materialise. So when it all goes tits up, who will get the blame ? Why the lazy, workshy disabled people who are refusing to engage with the system of course. Stop their benefit until they comply. Maybe a few of them will do us a favour and die along the way - that’ll save a few quid. It’s depressing and there has to be a better way for a country like the UK to treat its most sick and disabled in the 21st century.

None of this is about obliging employers to take on disabled workers. That would be in the "Too Hard" file.

Tossers.

Yes. It is. That’s exactly what it’s about. The mechanisms already exist for those claimants who are assessed as too sick/disabled to work, to engage with the system and look for work if that’s what they want to do. But Government simply don’t believe that there are as many people too sick to work as have been assessed as such. So in actual fact they don’t trust the very system of assessment they designed and introduced themselves. Do you not think that’s a damning indictment ?

but, but, but - is it about forcing disabled people into work they are incapable of doing? There's plenty of disabled people who say give me a chance to work and I will if I can.

I know my autistic ds is doing his best to get a job from the mostly non-existent jobs available. As am I, his 60+ carer, old and toothless amongst the many younger (50s or less) more good-looking applicants for the few jobs available.

And I still got a student loan to repay, mortgage and 6 years til my pension.

Feel like Yosser Hughes - "gissa job".