To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

This is v worrying, could lead to all sorts being done with that data esp if combined with other data as a pp said.

So how would you feel if it was extended to all UK bank accounts to monitor fo tax fraud. And it’s really not a small amount of privacy that’s being invaded, it’s just another rung on the ladder of total control. If they can justify monitoring peoples’ bank accounts as a crackdown on benefit fraud, just imagine the other creative justifications in store for the future.

My late BIL worked for what was the DSS in the fraud department. He always said the “clamp down on cheats” campaigns were purely political rhetoric and that the Mrs Snooks claiming a bit extra amounted to very little. The real, proper, high value frauds were committed by organised crime and I guess it’s the same today. He wasn’t by any stretch of the imagination a bleeding heart liberal and definitely knew what he was talking about.

@Rosscameasdoody Of course its a benefit its been a benefit since the National Insurance Act of 1946 but its a contribution based one as when we were working age we paid for the pensioner generations before us.

This is all going to be done by AI which will just turn off the payments if they find irregularities. No human involvement and the claimant will have to appeal to the DWP. That will take time, and of course save money immediately while the claimant has to make a case against the AI decision. It will be very hard to do.

This is just the Tories desperately trying to appeal to the Daily Mail mob thinking it can win them a few votes.

I think it horrific that there is a real dehumanisation of people who happen to claim benefits. It is like they stop being people with a right to privacy and instead are just all viewed by default as fraudsters and lazy.

It seems to me that these days most criminals and people who milk the system are those in Parliament, the House of Lords , the government in general and their rich mates...

The idea of snooping into people's bank accounts simply because they claim benefits should be challenged in court.

And yes big companies and wealthy individual are getting away with not paying their taxes and people like Michelle Mone need to be arrested and put in front of a jury and stripped of her title.

Also, I have absolutely no confidence in people's private data being kept safe with this current government.

I would like to know how & why they are going to 'monitor' the bank accounts of DLA or PIP claimants when such claims are not income dependent.

I imagine some posters like to think or to pretend that PIP claims are easy, @Universalsnail, for (shall we say) interesting psychological reasons.

The banks are to be made responsible for checking all accounts into which means tested (income based) benefits are being paid by BACS, and alerting DWP to any irregularity. It isn’t true to say that all benefits claimants will be subject to these checks - it’s mainly for those on means tested benefits, to check that all income has been declared and that savings thresholds are not being exceeded. Disability benefits like PIP, DLA and AA aren’t affected where they are stand alone benefits because they are not means tested.

Where problems will arise is where the banks see other payments such as relatives making payments maybe for birthday/Christmas gifts or to repay money owed, because strictly speaking anything you receive has to be declared, but many claimants don’t think things like this count. I think DWP are going to waste a lot of time chasing up things like this alongside the deliberate fraud it’s intended to address.

This.
And in particular it’s high time there was compulsory registration of all rental properties, so that landlords cannot get away with failing to declare their rental income. As it stands, in many areas, if you have no mortgage (and a good many don’t) there is nobody you are obliged to tell that you are renting out a property. The self-assessment tax form asks only how many properties, no addresses - surely the easiest thing to fiddle.

I’m quite sure it’s rife. A doctor friend of a dd who moved area and rented out her original flat, was openly told by a married couple of fellow senior doctors that she was mad to be declaring her rental income - ‘We never have!’ And that’s not all I’ve ever heard.

As for the slumlords who cram tenants in to neglected properties and very
likely demand the rent in cash, it doesn’t take a genius to work that one out.

This is the problem

No I don't know anyone claiming benefits when they shouldn't.

Pip is not easy to get at all. It requires a lot of stress, an assessment, drs backing up when the claimant says, often reconsideration and tribunals.

You are just assuming from the outside that they could work and are assuming they are not entitled to it but are some how claiming anyway.

This kind of opinion makes the lives of disabled people significantly worse.

It's really not difficult, there's just no will from the political elite to upset their future employers.

The Americans, for example, have made it that you pay American taxes no matter where you live in the world, unless you renounce your American citizenship. Even if you do that they've made it so that you have to pay tax for a certain period after and potentially sell off assets.

It's simple. The Conservatives don't like benefit claimants. They only like pensioners, who are also benefit claimants, because they overwhelmingly vote Conservative. They are not interested in being fair. They would like some tax cuts.

The only bank accounts they are checking is those of UC recipients. Working age, means tested, benefits or top ups.

PIP/DLA alone are not affected by wealth or bank balances.

https://www.gbnews.com/money/universal-credit-bank-account-check

This ^^

Yes, this, while at the same time some kids can't get free school meals. The meals MP's get are decent quality and wine while we all know what school meals are like.

Let’s not mention Liz truss losing the economy millions.
let’s not mention hs2 wasting billions
let’s not mention ppe scandals
let’s not mention billions lost to fraudulent business claims during Covid of which less than 5% has been recovered.

nope it’s DEFINITELY benefits claimants that are the problem.

While you are technically correct. HMRC has for some years conflated the two to intimidate those without the best professional advice and even some who have it.

This is why companies should have to claim benefits. They are the ones allowed to pay little enough that people need benefits to allow them to live. All make legal by the introduction of tax credits

Not pensioner bashing at all, but state pension is legally defined asa benefit, and I think this is where the confusion arises.

Tbf the levels of benefit fraud shot up during the pandemic when the usual (and perfectly adequate when properly implemented) checks on ID etc were suspended and claims went entirely online

Indeed it did.

I moved to a new flat in April of this year and universal credit rejected my housing element twice as they thought my tenancy was "contrived". I had to jump through hoops to have my benefit awarded and had to get my local MP involved in the end. I was told it was because they had seen record numbers of fake tenancies created during the pandemic with people fraudulently claiming thousands of pounds.

I managed to prove my tenancy was legitimate only when my first council tax bills came through so it's fortunate I had a small amount of savings to pay the rent until then.

As far as I'm concerned they can check what they like. Innocent people are already suffering because of fraudulent claimants.

@YomAsalYomBasal yeah I wondered when some ignorant individual would mention pensioners, I take it you DO know that the State pension is paid from NI revenue not tax the NIF is in surplus to the tune of 60.5 Billion as of 31st March 2023. Income based benefits are paid through tax revenue, which is why as much as some Mumsnetters want to do away with my pension (which I pay tax on BTW) it wouldn't add a single farthing to the funds available for income based benefits or disability benefits

And actually its pensioners themselves who often lose out on tax payers help the uptake of pension credit is very low despite the government advertising it nearly everyday, also the its clear that a lot of pensioners are not claiming Attendance Allowance the benefit they can get for care needs.

And the poster has conveniently overlooked the fact that net recipients are not just benefit claimants - they are also anyone with children.

Interesting in the USA, child support is taken out of the absent father's pay via deduction through social security (tax code equiv) number. Don't pay - get a fine, don't pay- jail.
Money goes to the mother for the children.

everyone who claims any sort of benefit including disability benefits banks are going to be monitored.

In what way? How are they going to do this?