To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

Think about it.
More tax paid by the more wealthy.
More money in the government's coffers.
How would that make running the country more expensive for 'normal people'?

If the government wanted to spend a billion on schools, or the health service, they would. But wealthy people and government figures use private schools and private healthcare, so they are not motivated to help subsidise the state. There's literally no motivation for them to deal with tax evasion by the wealthy. But there is a motivation to demonise the poor, so those one step up the ladder can say oh look at how hard the government is working to stop (insert: benefit scroungers, boat people, hate marchers etc) and vote for them again. It's so shit. It's all lip service and self-interest.

I'm also intrigued as to how far all this will go.

Say a payment to Asda on a card is £98. Is that OK, in and of itself - or will DWP want to check it hasn't been spent on alcohol and cake - will it want a specific break-down of items from Asda or the claimant for a particular transaction/date?

If they really want to chase the bad guys, they to need to be chasing the cash economy and money laundering, which tbh is a very male world (tradies working cash-in-hand, shops with remarkably few customers etc), and not penalise women trying to bring up children and putting them at risk of homelessness through frozen rent benefit. Who is going to house these families?

One of the reasons always given for how crap this country is at collecting Child Support is because DWP and HMRC and other systems can't talk to each other. But now they suddenly can??

Hey, please don't think that. Threads like this on MN attract nutters and make for depressing reading. None of this may ever happen and you are doing a fantastic job bringing up your DC.

Step away from threads like these, is my advice. And there will will be plenty of people and legal & disability charities challenging this nonsense.

Take care and thank you for everything that you're doing in raising your family under harsh circumstances I've been there, a long time ago; and it was hard for a while, I'm not going to lie. I'm on your side.

It makes no sense to me to be monitoring the accounts of people on disability benefits. I get PIP and new style ESA which is contributions-based, and none of it is means-tested. We have a high household income as DH is a high earner. We have amounts well over the £16k limit in our joint account at any time.

How are they to know whether the luxury goods and treats I buy are paid for from my disability benefits or DH's wage? And all they will see is the name of the retailer, so the things I buy from Amazon or John Lewis could be expensive bags and jewellery, or a useful labour-saving device

If you claim means tested/income based benefits you have to declare everything - it’s not the savings threshold in question here, it’s what’s seen and treated as income.

but surely unless grandparents are transferring thousands it won’t matter. you need over 16000 in your account before you are no longer eligible for UC (i think)

Please don't imagine all the frankly stupid comments from people who have not thought this through and obviously never had to negotiate the insane world of DWP are the whole picture.

Plenty of us can see this for what it really is and are opposed to it for that reason.

According to the lovely Suella Braverman being homeless and living in a tent is a lifestyle choice too. Michelle Mone isn’t the only soulless twat - most of them are in government.

It will certainly catch people out, yes. The moral is, get your birthday/Christmas money in cash and spend it as cash.

This is public money. It is much cheaper and more effective to do this than pay civil servants in each department to do what AI can and less effectively

I had to go through a lot of inhumane assessments and meetings to claim the benefits I claim. I still don’t have any of the support I actually need, but I do have money enough to feed the kids. I am ashamed of being on benefits, but I’m not capable of work right now. I already feel subhuman, this just makes me feel even worse. What is the point of attempting to survive when this is what the government and society think of me. I’m better off dead going by so many of these comments.

They are not mutually exclusive though. DWP can (and should) work to reduce fraud in their systems and HMRC should equally pursue investigations into potential fraudulent accounts.

The UC checks and balances are only part of the picture. New legislation is being prepared with a view to monitoring the bank accounts of all benefit claimants.

How will that make a difference ? Do you think a Labour government is going to scrap the legislation needed to put this into operation when it’s already underway ? AI will be just as beneficial to a Labour government as any other. Labour have often run with Tory based ideas, and vice versa.

On the face of it, if the PIP or DLA claimant isn’t claiming any other means tested working age benefits then they wouldn’t be affected. But at some point they’re going to be monitored if plans to collect information on how benefit is spent go ahead. Easy to see why - monitoring how much of your disability benefits are being spent on disability related things.

How do we know how much money is actually lost to benefit fraud though? I would imagine most people committing benefit fraud probably are never caught, so the true cost is likely to be much much higher.

Yes, one of the things so missed in all these measures to make it harder to claim is that the small number healthy lazy people on the fiddle are better placed to jump through the hoops than the people who actually need it are.

Especially as more and more support places are cut and have funding slashed.

A lot of very vulnerable people don’t even bother applying for PIP in the first place because they can’t face the complicated application process. And more will just accept a wrong decision without appealing for the same reason. The help they need to get a fair shake isn’t easily accessible. A large proportion of those with mental health problems are thought to be in this cohort.

Yep, this. They will find a way around it.

This is a really depressing post. Most people I know who are carers also work. The problem is that for the measly amount of money they get for caring duties which save the tax payer a fortune, they have to undertake to be a carer for at least 35 hours a week and the earnings threshold, like all means tested benefits, is set low. I’ve seen people burnt out because of exhausting caring duties on top of full time work, so why are you insinuating that hoardes of people are using it as an excuse to skive. The same with depression and anxiety - very real conditions and sometimes crippling in their severity. And single parents already have some compulsion to find work if their child is over a certain age. Yes there will always be those who seek to play the system, but they’re not nearly as common as successive governments would like you to believe.

Every bit of legislation passed in Parliament must be compatible with the Human Rights Act. This will be justified as the prevention of serious crime which is what fraud is. The fact that it is small amounts in theory will not make a difference to this. If they are looking for fraud, then this is justified more easily than you think

Since when do the Tories care about the Human Rights Act ? The problem here is that we’re not just talking about monitoring the accounts of those suspected of fraud - as happens now. That’s fair enough if there’s reason to think they’re doing something dishonest.

But what we’re talking about here is the wholesale monitoring of the bank accounts of every person claiming benefit, by AI designed to stop payment if it detects something it perceives as amiss. When you claim benefit, you accept that the DWP shares your information with various other bodies and collects information from them. This is an extension of that, and we’re sleepwalking into it. Someone upthread said the sooner the Tories are voted out the better. Does anyone really think a change of government will stop it. I’d wager that the preparations for it are well underway and unstoppable.

A lot of what companies do is not illegal. Also we want big companies in the UK making money.

Benefits fraud is always illegal.

Also a lot of people claiming benefits "legitimately" could actually work. You see it all the time for "depression" or a "carer" to an anxious wife or something Or single mums / Dad's with a load of children where it's not financially viable to work.

Just because rich people avoid tax and exploit loopholes that doesn't mean people on low incomes who cheat the benefit system are heroes. They're not.

The benefit system is based on simple principle. We all pay a bit into the pot so that when others are old or sick or unable to find a job they are taken care of. Fine. That's a noble and beautiful thing (and I say that as a centrist-conservative). But we all know people who cheat that system. They exaggerate their mental and physical illness, have lots of kids so they can get a house, or simply put in repeat prescriptions and don't show up for GP appointments. Yes, a greedy and amoral businessman is selfish, but so is a benefit cheat. They are cheats. They're cheating you and me. They're cheating your kids and your grandparents. They take money that could be spent on your kid's school, or on a new drop in centre for old people.

Remember, there is no magic money tree. You can't spend money you don't earn. The welfare system costs this country an absolute fortune, and is barely sustainable. To make it worse, the kinds of people who cheat the system tend to be violent, ignorant, and anti-social, and they raise violent, ignorant, anti-social children, who then become a burden on society and on the taxpayer. I have people near me who don't work. They have effectively been given a house, paid for by my tax. And here I am, a total mug, getting up at five in the morning and slogging my guts out in a job I hate to support them. In return, their kids run riot on the estate and ruin everybody's life.

I can see potential legal challenges too because the things for which a claimant will use PIP and other disability cost benefits are not always trackable or obvious. For example someone who’s incontinent will spend more on clothing, bedding, washing products, higher bills due to more frequent washing/drying. Some may have to have the heating on more than usual, taxi fares because they can’t use public transport, more fuel for cars, paying someone to do housework, etc. All it will lead to is these cost based benefits becoming more and more restrictive and less people will qualify because they can’t demonstrate the real effects of their disability. The current PIP application concentrates mainly on what help you need from another person and what aids and appliances you use. The real day to day costs are not assessed - including most of those mentioned above.