To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

Worried also as to where they are suddenly going to get thousands more talking therapists from and that a lot of people don't actually find this kind of thing helpful.

I think too there are ethical issues in “sending” someone to therapy, with the purpose of getting them back into work. The hope would be that decent therapeutic care would help someone recover and, as a result, they might be able to join the workforce but therapy with work as a marker of success is unethical.

Yes, better legislation is needed. If we all would write to our MP's demanding this that would be a good start.

Exactly this.

This government is claiming there's no money so cuts, cuts, cuts. If there's limited funds, surely you direct them at the thing that would reap the most rewards.

It's just so obvious that they're doing it to win votes and pit us all against each other so we don't look up.

I really hope they are voted out at the next election 🤞🏻

In all honesty I think further financial hardship would put me over the edge and I'd go from being unwell but hopeful that maybe I'll be able to find some work I could hold together one day to just outright suicidal, in crisis and definitely not able go to work. Every time I think about loosing LCWRA I just feel so bleak I really think I'd be better off dead then that poor because I struggle to cope as it is.

Also I should just point out that there is no evidence at all that any company owned or controlled by Rupert Murdoch has not paid any tax due in the uk. HMRC actually tend to be quite good at going after non payers who are big companies as it’s a relatively easy win for them.

As I understand it, the government is suing the PPE company connected to Michelle Mone to get back money that was wrongly paid and there was a criminal investigation (which may be ongoing).

Tax avoidance is not something that can be accurately measured. It’s just people arranging their affairs to pay less tax - can be be everything from paying into a pension to moving to another country. Rupert Murdoch does not live in the uk and his personal tax affairs are confidential anyway.

None of the above means that benefits fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted. It’s all of our money and if people get away with fraud that destroys trust in the system.

@Holidayinthesun I've been saying that since the referendum was announced. We will soon begin to see who the nutty conspiracy theorist is!

@LakieLady, it’s extremely worrying :(

Another work coach insisted that an under-35 client wasn't allowed the adult LHA rate for her rent, despite being in receipt of PIP. That was resolved by mandatory reconsideration, but nearly led to the poor woman becoming homeless.

Another one wanted to sanction a client for turning down a job that was more than 2.5 hours travel time each way, when decision maker's guidance specifies 90 .

Awful. Sadly not surprised.

@XenoBitch, I am v sorry. I think it’s awful their plans in 2025 if they win are those who don’t get PIP will not get the extra £390 a month in their UC meaning having to live on such a threadbare amount whilst too ill to work. I hope Labour would not do this but know no guarantee under a Starmer Labour govt.

However, there are worrying longer-term implications as the Government has said it would like to ultimately scrap the WCA & leave conditionality entirely at work coach discretion. This would be incredibly dangerous, especially given the harsher punishments being planned.

Thanks for posting this, @Crispedia .

The mere phrase "work coach discretion" rings huge alarm bells for me. Most of the issues my clients have with UC arise from things that are at the "discretion" of work coaches. By way of example, that included a homeless young woman recently discharged from a psych unit to a hostel, and still in the assessment phase of UC, being required to attend the job centre more than once a week and to look for work. The guidance is that homeless people should not be subject to jobseeking requirements because their need to find somewhere to live is more pressing. That had to be resolved through a DWP partnership manager.

Another work coach insisted that an under-35 client wasn't allowed the adult LHA rate for her rent, despite being in receipt of PIP. That was resolved by mandatory reconsideration, but nearly led to the poor woman becoming homeless.

Another one wanted to sanction a client for turning down a job that was more than 2.5 hours travel time each way, when decision maker's guidance specifies 90 .
And there doesn't appear to be any monitoring for consistency. If a work coach had a downer against a particular group, no-one would know that they were exercising their (considerable) powers unfairly.

Looking to see if I can find one now. It was in one of the consultation documents and talked about removing carers exemption from work related activity/job seeking as part of the reforms. It said they would be entitled to a work coach to help them fit work around caring duties, keeping in mind that the the upper earnings limit for carers allowance was being retained. Problem is there have been several consultations on different aspects of the reforms, but if I can find it I’ll post a link.

I haven’t seen anything else about it since, so the plans could have been dropped but given that they’ve been so vague in the announcements about all of this, and details are appearing bit by bit on various disability websites, it may just be buried somewhere.

I think this is probably right. Eligibility for CA goes on the PIP award of the person being cared for, and the fact that they work won’t affect the claim for PIP, so as long as you’re still caring for the required 35 hours there shouldn’t be a problem.

@Rosscameasdoody I'd be very grateful if you could provide the link to the thing about carers. I can never find anything when I Google it. Thanks

Someone somewhere has got this very wrong.

That’s because someone somewhere hasn’t thought it through. As with all welfare reform it’s being rushed through to try to reduce the benefits bill without a single thought as to how individuals in different circumstances will be affected. And in this case it’s being rushed through with more than an eye on attracting votes when a general election comes around.

@TigerRag Thank you for saying that. The most difficult, poorly paid, soul destroying job I have ever had, and I have worked in different jobs for over 35 years of working full time, has been caring for my husband. There is no starting at 9am and finishing at 5pm. There are no weekend breaks, holidays etc It certainly doesn't feel like I've been "long term unemployed" in fact I've never worked harder in my life.

At the moment yes, they are. But there was something in the ‘Chance to Work’ consultation and included in the White Paper for it, outlining future plans for carers as outlined in my post. I’ll see if I can find a link, but it was a while ago.

The absolutely ridiculous thing is that my dh has been approved by the local council for Support workers as he cannot be left alone. If I am now forced to get a job if he gets moved to just LCW and I lose my carer's exemption from having to seek work (please note, I'm not workshy, worked full time for 35 years before he became ill and I had to resign to take care of him) then I will probably only be able to get get a minimum wage job and the person they have to supply to look after my husband whilst I am at work, will be costing the council over £16 an hour (that's what the current support team charges)or he will have to go into a residential home, again both at a higher cost to the government than me staying at home and looking after him, getting paid my measly carers allowance (of which I am extremely grateful for). Someone somewhere has got this very wrong.

Yep, changes taking place from 2025 are aimed at reducing the LCWRA numbers, so some of the Work Capability Assessment stand alone descriptors such as continence, mobility and safety issues which currently qualify claimants for LCWRA will disappear. The government justified this by saying that the more severely disabled didn’t need this protection as they could work from home. Only new claimants will be affected at first, but the WCA is due to be scrapped altogether by 2029 so there will likely be a migration process for all claimants to the new system - possibly using a change of circumstance as a flag at first. Then it will be up to DWP ‘therapists’ to decide who is exempt from work related activity - those deemed fit for WRA would then be assigned individual work coaches to assist with efforts to find work and would decide on conditionality and benefit sanctions where a claimant is deemed not to be engaging with the new system.

Note. The government hasn’t said one word about where they expect all these WFH vacancies to come from, or how they’re going to persuade employers to engage with taking on some of the most sick and disabled people in the country - a fair proportion of whom will be having ongoing treatment and many more who will have been unemployed for long periods of time. If they were genuinely concerned about supporting disabled people into work they would have worked this out before introducing conditionality. It’s not about support, it’s about reducing the benefits bill and that’s why they’ve been vague in their announcements on the subject so far.

Carers aren't long term unemployed. They're exempt from seeking work

@MissLou0 please can you let me know where you got that graph? I'd like to be able to share it from its source with a few people.

Economically we would be far, far better off reclaiming even just 1% of the money sent to Tory chums in the PPE scandal than doing anything at all about false benefit claims.

But as this thread demonstrates, people get far more frothy and het up about Sid down the road and his hypothetical big TV and 19 children in a special council house then they do about £118bn going missing on PPE scams in the middle of the worst crisis we have had in most people's living memory.

You won’t be on either LCW or LCWRA if you’re a carer so you would fall into the non disabled rules being introduced for long term unemployed - more conditionality and sanctions will apply if you are still not working after 18 months. You’re allowed to earn £139 a week after deductions and still claim carers allowance, so theoretically at least, you could still manage 35 hours of care depending on whether some care is given during the night. You would be assigned a work coach and it would then be a case of discussing with them, how to fit your caring duties around work, and how many hours are appropriate up to the maximum earnings limit.

LCW group are not exempted from work related activity, LCWRA are.

@Babyroobs thanks for that information. My dh has psychosis, I care for him full time. He now won't leave the house alone, won't stay in alone (we are lucky enough to be provided with support workers twice a week to give me a break) he's heavily medicated with anti psychotic drugs and needs help to administer them etc He's also currently undergoing Memory tests.
He's in support group ESA, has been since 2020 and since then he's been reassessed by them twice but this has been done without him having to complete more forms or be interviewed, so I guessed they based it on him being rewarded PIP? He was reassessed this year and told he'll be reassessed again in 2025. He's been with the psychosis team for the maximum of 3 years that you can do and is now under the CMHT. He's been with them just over a year and has only just seen a psychotherapist as there is such a long waiting list. As you say, where on earth are they going to find all these new therapists from? It seems to me that the government don't care how long people will have to wait for this "talking therapy", they'll just be pleased that during that time they will no longer have to pay them the extra £390.

Yes with LCWRA you get an extra £390 per month on your Uc claim and are exempt from looking for work or doing any kind of work search/ preparing for work. With LCW there is no extra money although you still get a work allowance ( if you don't qualify for that by other means), and you are not required to look for work but are expected to take some steps to getting back to work and have some appointments with a work coach etc.

What is the difference between LCW and LCWRA is it just the additional payment for LCWRA. If in the LCW group are you still exempt from work related activity ?