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Original poster

To think someone must be able to do something - part 3

619 replies

PurpleLampShades · 01/11/2023 09:09

I never thought I’d be needing to start a third thread but here we are. The first two threads have been a great source of support for me so I’m going to carry on.

First Thread
Second Thread

Long story short - DS (17) has been in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started when he was 15, though I have no proof as they deny it. This has been going on since at least March 2022. SS, the police and the DSL at his college have all been involved and things from that front have been pretty much exhausted. He has been on CIN and early intervention plans, been visited/spoken to by the police, offered workshops, counselling, contact centre etc. The main stumbling blocks are DS’s refusal/inability to recognise the abusive and toxic situation he is in and the resulting refusal to engage with services to extract him from it.
She is abusive, manipulative and extremely controlling. She has isolated him almost entirely from friends, family and hobbies. She is destroying his self esteem, confidence and self-worth. She controls his phone, who he speaks to, where he goes, what he does. I know she has slapped him around the face more than once and was seen to put her hand around his throat while they were kissing once. I don’t know if there are other incidents like that. The remaining protective factor is that he is still managing to attend college, although attendance is a bit of a concern.

I am at the point of not really knowing what to do now. I feel like I’ve lost him.

OP posts:
SkyFullofStars1975 · 14/11/2023 20:21

As a condition of the loan, could you ask him to be in regular contact with a family member of his choosing? An aunt/uncle/cousin he used to be close to?
And explain to him that it would give you a little peace of mind as you just worry so much when you don't hear from him.

Rosiiee · 14/11/2023 20:20

Could you negotiate giving him a smaller amount? 300 is a lot on a weekend for her….

I initially read your post and thought no way on earth would I give him money to spend on her but I’d worry about it causing an even bigger drift between you and DS.

Knackeredhamster · 14/11/2023 20:16

I'd not give the money.

I know he's being controlled but I'd risk her getting very pissed off with him to hopefully rock the boat.
Something has to give.

He's only come to you for money which is heartbreaking but also extremely manipulative and no doubt orchestrated by her whims.

I would not play into their hands.

Original poster
PurpleLampShades · 14/11/2023 20:15

Seems like it is somewhat even on giving or not giving him the money. I was hoping for a landslide opinion to tell me what to do to be honest. Everyone makes important points that make sense but, ahhhhh, what do I do? Im fighting a losing battle really aren’t I? It doesn’t really matter what I do because either way he isn’t coming home. Which one is safer for him do you think?

OP posts:
Inthebleakmidwinter2 · 14/11/2023 20:05

Hi purple. I've been following this since the start under different names, glad you started another thread.

I don't know what to advise about the money, however if it was my child I think I'd NOT try to be strong in front of him, show emotion and cry. Let him know you miss him and how hard this is for you. Tell him you don't want to give him money and then have him disappear on you again. I know if I thought I was causing my parents loads of heartbreak it would stir up guilt in me.

AngelAurora · 14/11/2023 19:52

I would not give him it, he is completely controlling you now OP, give it once he will continually keep asking. Tell him to get a job or ask his gf for the money instead. He made his bed he can lie in it.

Anyoneknowanything1 · 14/11/2023 19:04

He trusted that you would react well to him asking. That is a good sign he thinks you are reacting consistently well to him. I'd give him the money and see if he would be open to you dropping into college every 2 weeks. Baby steps x

cloverpots · 14/11/2023 18:59

Hi Purple, I do often wonder how you are getting on.

I'm totally with Hickry on this.

Plus, nothing has changed, he still exhibits the same behaviour in that he refused to talk and would only stay long enough to ask for money.

It's particularly galling considering he totally ignored your last Birthday. No excuses for this, he could have popped a card/small gift through the letterbox as he did the previous year.

As for asking to meet up, regardless of what he promises, and I suspect right now he'll promise anything, the visits won't happen, deep down you must know this.

I absolutely would not give him the money or increase his allowance as this just enables the relationship.

I cannot believe he is still putting you through this xx

SkyFullofStars1975 · 14/11/2023 18:53

Honestly, if you can afford it, I'd give it to him. He came to you. And I'd want to be the person he can come to.

Fuck what it's for, don't give that headspace.

I think it's really good news that he came to you, even fleetingly.

Sauvblanctime · 14/11/2023 18:34

She is being totally unreasonable. He’s 17, he’s a student. I wouldn’t lend it, if he can’t book it, it might push her to realise he’s a child. I can’t believe there’s nothing you can do, coercive control etc. Good luck op. X

SugarPlumRoar · 14/11/2023 18:28

OP, I think I'd given him the money, and I say this because I think if he doesn't come through she will give him more abuse.

If you can afford to give him it without him paying you back I'd do do, I wouldn't attach any conditions to it other than perhaps just asking to meet for a coffee where you want to give him it as his birthday gift (I wouldn't put repeat visits as a condition as she will use it against you and say its controlling.) If you could afford it I'd maybe give him another cheap pay as you go mobile if he does agree to meet you and keep any conversation to subjects away from his girlfriend. She has you painted as the enemy to him, don't provide her anything to fuel that perception.

I feel for you and your poor DS, but maybe this can be a way in to open up commutation between you too. If he agrees to the coffee perhaps a topic you could discuss is increasing his monthly money but I wouldn't agree to do it by a lot maybe another £50-100 as I suspect it would go right into her pocket. It may help you get some information on what he's doing with his money already and what she is funding or expecting in return from him.

Basically you need to come across as supportive to him, that doesn't mean you need to support her, I'd actually be very grey rock about her, you can't win no matter what you say when it comes to her, your son needs to see the situation for what it is and want change/help himself. Be clear he always has a home with you and your door is always open for him for anything at any time no matter what.

Best of luck OP to you and your poor DS

CaroleSinger · 14/11/2023 18:17

Although you may feel giving him the money may bring him closer and build your own relationship, I really don't think you should pay for her to be taken away. This could be an opportunity for him to finally see the flaws here for what they are and realise that he just doesn't have the means to sustain this. Of course it's a dilemma but my inclination would be not to do it. She chose a bf who can't give her the luxury holidays she wants.

Original poster
PurpleLampShades · 14/11/2023 18:05

That might be an idea. Give him the money but instead of paying it back he just needs to meet me for a coffee and a chat every week. Is that too much to ask? It’s not really is it. He did say he wanted to see me. But then, if I put conditions on it, is that controlling? I am really conscious of this now. I know she has put a worm in his ear that it’s me that’s the controlling one and I know a couple of posters here have said the same.

Any normal partner would be happy with any gift where some effort was put into it wouldn’t they? You are so right. She has such unrealistic expectations of him and it’s just another thing to use against him to control him and make him feel less than. I don’t think she actually wants him to better himself with studies. She just wants to control him.

He doesn’t have a job as far as I know. I don’t know for sure, though I’m not sure she’d be happy with that as you say, given she doesn’t want him around anyone else but her. I would love to be able to sit down with him and discuss all of this but he gets so defensive.

OP posts:
Hickry · 14/11/2023 16:43

Does he have a part time job OP?

It would help him financially and give him a bit more of a window of time away from her and among other sane people. If he doesn't have one I'd suggest it. I'd imagine she'd hate it, given she doesn't like him even sat with female students.

Hickry · 14/11/2023 16:41

Personally I wouldn't lend it to him.

He's a skint student, that's normal at his age. She shouldn't be expecting expensive gifts from him that he cannot afford!! If she loved him she'd be happy with whatever he COULD afford, and know he's bettering himself with his studies meaning he will have a better lifestyle and disposable income afterwards.

If this were my child Id say I'm sorry I can't afford to lend or give any more than you do currently. If he's struggling with finances living away from home then he always has a bed and a meal at yours, as well as your unconditional love.

I'd also say that unconditional love could mean a birthday gift of a box of maltesers or a bunch of flowers would be gratefully received if that's all the buyer if the gift could afford. That its about the thought and the sentiment not the price tag. £300!! 🤬

I could rant lengthily about her right now so I can only imagine how you're feeling.

humpty74 · 14/11/2023 16:39

This all makes me so sad, I've been thinking of you often.
Could you give him the money but on the condition of a weekly meetup? Perhaps the college or one of his friends could hold a phone for him to contact you, or he could email from the college computers? Could the college put something in his timetable so he could see you during a 'class'?

Baconisdelicious · 14/11/2023 16:31

I'm so sorry to hear you are no further forward. I have wondered about you every now and again. He will come back, OP, when he's ready. He will know, in his heart, you are there for him.

Original poster
PurpleLampShades · 14/11/2023 16:16

I saw DS yesterday. He turned up at the house out of the blue last night. He didn’t stay long at all and didn’t want to talk about anything except the reason he came, which was to ask for a loan. He looks unwell. I am worried about him.
When I asked why he wanted a loan he eventually admitted it was for gf’s birthday because she wants him to take her away for the weekend and he hasn’t managed to save enough and can’t get a credit card at 17 (thank god) and he is now panicking about it.

I said I’d have to have a think about it overnight. I’m just not sure what to do really. He gets £150 a month plus the child benefit that I pass on to him so he gets around £250 a month. I don’t know how much or how long he’s been saving for her birthday but he asked to be loaned another £300 and he’d pay me back out of his next few months payments. I could lend it or I could just give it but I really don’t want him spending my money on her.

Do you think £250 a month is enough for him to live on? It isn’t is it? Which means he’s relying on her or in debt to her because she’s paying for him and that gives her more control over him. I thought if he didn’t have enough he might come home but I think that’s failed hasn’t it? Should I speak to the solicitor about increasing his money? Should I lend or give him this money for her birthday?

What is going to be for the best? I really don’t know and I’m torn on this. And I’m sad I couldn’t see him for longer and actually talk properly. It was clear she didn’t know he came to see me. He kept saying he was sorry he couldn’t stay and was in a hurry etc but that he wanted to see me properly and he would phone me in a few weeks. I don’t know if that was just words or if he meant it. Or if he meant it but deep down it won’t happen because she’ll make it too hard.

OP posts:
coffeestrongblacknosugar · 09/11/2023 18:28

I am so sorry to read your update - it is truly heartbreaking and I can feel your pain in your written words.

Maybe try again meeting them both - in a neutral place, not at yours and maybe could you invite a friend to be with you?

RobinStrike · 07/11/2023 20:05

I'm so sorry Purple. I think of you often and hope your son finally tells a friend what is happening to him.
Does he have a college email address you could send him messages? Even fairly innocuous little paragraphs of news and sending love.
Maybe he would reply. The college may give you his email address if you don't already have it.
I hope your counsellor can support you through this.

Maddy70 · 07/11/2023 16:58

What a horrendous situation for you
I think the idea of meeting them both for lunch is the best. idea. Could you invite them to a birthday lunch?

Kill her with kindness , be really welcoming. Open some doors perhaps?

He's being abused but he is naive about it and probably doesn't realise.

The important thing is to open communication and get a foot back in the door.

KeeefBurtain · 07/11/2023 16:45

I can remember reading your first thread last year and am sad for you that the situation is worse. No advice but just adding to the shoulders of support.

AproposofEverything · 07/11/2023 16:40

I’m so sorry Purple. It’s more than frustrating that services were aware of this before he was 17. Also that an independent professional actually witnessed the throat incident. I keep thinking of you and hope you have your son back soon.

Original poster
PurpleLampShades · 07/11/2023 14:08

Hello. Nothing really to update. Things are the same. No contact. But to answer some questions.

I’ve tried SS again but they say they can’t do anything now that he’s 17. They can’t apply for any kind of care order as he’s over 17 and not already on a plan or looked after by the LA. The police can’t do anything from a child protection point of view because again, he’s 17 so their hands are tied. There is basically nothing for children who are 16-17. Technically, they’re still defined as a child but treated as if they’re an adult. I have found that all of the child protection guidance and regulations only really applies up to age 17, unless the child is already under a protection order or in care before they are 17. My DS fits into neither of those.

The next piece of legislation if none of the child centred legislation applies is the domestic abuse act which applies to 16 year olds and over, but that also relies on DS actually reporting something or clear evidence / proof that the police witness. Me reporting what I think and have heard about means nothing apparently. I, someone or the police have to actually witness it or DS has to report abuse taking place to be able to do anything. There’s just nothing to protect him and other young people from this. This has really made me see that 16 & 17 year olds are really so vulnerable and have very little to protect them from harm and abuse. It makes it even more important to teach them this stuff early to reduce the risk of it happening when you can’t do anything to help. If I could go back to when he was 13 I would start there and really work on what a healthy relationship is, what makes a relationship unhealthy, signs of abuse etc. If you have teens, I would beg you to do this so you don’t end up where me and my DS are right now.

This is partly why I’m still toying with the idea of trying to make contact with and spend time with both of them. Maybe she’ll slip up and do something I can report but even then it probably won’t be enough. I just don’t think this is going to stop until DS can recognise and admit the situation for what it is. And I can’t help him do that if I can’t get to see him or have any contact with him. I haven’t sent another phone in because I think she’ll just find it again. If she’s checked his locker once and found the last one I’m sure she’ll do it again. I haven’t been in to the college to see him again but I think I’m going to have to. I just don’t want him to feel like I’m ruining his safe space for want of a better phrase. I just don’t know what to do for the best! I know what I WANT to do but I have to think about the impact it could on him. I am just at a loss. I know I keep repeating that like a broken record but it’s true. I feel completely helpless, just floating about doing nothing.

He’s been to workshops, had counselling, had college input on healthy relationships and boundaries over the last year as part of the early intervention stuff, but none of it seems to have sunk in or he hasn’t able to connect the dots. I wonder if it’s because this approach isn’t specific enough possibly, plus he didn’t really engage with any of it to be honest. He only went because he was made to. I also think because she blows hot and cold with him his assumption is he’s done something wrong or something right rather than seeing it as an abusive tactic she uses to confuse him and keep him doing what she wants.

This has gotten quite long now so I’d better stop, otherwise it will just turn into an even bigger rant. I am seeing my counsellor tomorrow so I be able to talk to them too. Thank you for the continued support.

OP posts:
MrsGarethSouthgate · 03/11/2023 22:19

@PurpleLampShades

Contact Social Services again and ask them to re-open the case with a view to them looking for grounds to submit an application for an Emergency Protection Order. Maybe ask for a joint meeting with them, his head of year and the police.

If an order can be applied for it will allow the police to use their powers under Section 50(9) of the Children Act 1989 to recover him from her address and place him elsewhere.

Or contact a solicitor yourself for advice on the above. It only applies to those under 18 though, so I am not sure how beneficial this would be to you if it did come off.