AIBU to say Taylor Swift is a once in a generation songwriter?

You can call her a product if you like. I find that a dehumanising way to talk. But if she's a product she's certainly produced herself. She's not anyone else's creation.

She's very inspiring in that sense.

And that is the product that has been sold ….

Sorry. You're wrong.

She does not have a manager. She is her own boss.

Yes Tree Paine does her PR. But she does what Taylor tells her to do. Taylor has a whole team who do what she tells them to do.

Literally NO ONE is pulling Taylor's strings.

As I say, it's one of the admirable and remarkable things about her. Very few artists have that level of control over their own careers.

No she hasn't. Again, I am a big fan of her music and she clearly has a vision, is heavily involved in her career and works extremely hard; but she has a dedicated team around her who put in a lot of graft. Tree for example she's very open about doing her PR, and of course she has management and a whole host of people who facilitate and advise her. That's not to take anything away from her, but it's reality. This doesn't mean she's packaged and prompted as an entity rather than being herself (as far as we know...).

Her dad was aware her masters were being sold, he even made money from the sale, her issue was who they were sold to which I get, but she would have been happy to not own them if anyone else had brought them. Personally I think 1989 TV has confirmed she is bored of the re records now and is just churning them out. The production on a fair few of them is poor, there's even background sounds that are pretty clear on the vinyl that seem to be unintentional- at least make an effort!

I really adore (most of) her music, perhaps as we are a similar age and although our lives are worlds apart I have related to her songs at various points of my life and they've resonated. I do think she's a very talented songwriter, but I don't really see the point of trying to prove she's the best songwriter and I don't see why it matters really- plenty of brilliant musicians around; some selling out world tours and breaking records and some travelling around in an old camper van to lose money touring pubs and clubs!

I do find the capi-tay-lism too much though. She's build a parasocial relationship with fans and whilst I believe certainly in the start this was a genuine way for her to give back to them ie the listening parties etc, now it's a way to make money. She's so focused on breaking records, winning awards, making as much money as possible that for me I do listen to her music but I'm not arsed on the rest. The 4 editions of Midnights for example was outrageous, and then to release several more with additional songs on knowing plenty would buy them all was gross. Of course people don't have to buy them it's their choice, but the limited edition and the hype created around them means plenty get swept up in it. There's literally no need to sell 4 identical albums that just have different covers and imagery and make a clock face when put together ffs. The merch is poor quality, overpriced and takes months to arrive.

No. She manages her own career. It's one of the amazing things about her.

You don't seem to know anything about Taylor Swift's career. She has masterminded every single move she's made since her masters were sold away from her.

She has a team, of course. But they don't manage her. She manages them. And a multi million dollar business. On top of her creative work.

You don't have to like her, but it's an objective fact that she is phenomenally talented both as a musician and as a businesswoman.

I agree. Nothing about those lyrics convinces me that Taylor Swift is a genius. To me, they aren't anything special. If I spammed the thread with the lyrics of a singer I love, I don't think they would sound like great works of genius either (even though I think they are.) But Taylor Swift fans REALLY want you to see what they see and to think she is amazing. They quote lyrics at you and urge you to listen to various songs. If you don't like her, you're just not listening properly or you haven't listened to the right song. There has been plenty of hostility and criticism about artists I love, but I don't give a stuff. I like what I like. I don't need anyone to agree with me. We're allowed to like different things.

Of course she has a management and pr team

she is a product worth a lot of money to a lot of people not just herself that takes management

what do you think she planned/arranged and marketed her tour, her release of music, her merchandise

i haven’t said her success is down to her pr team I have said she has the best team in the industry to make people believe that it’s all down to her being phenomenally talented she is talented but her team have certainly done a great job in creating a belief of her being far more talented and far more groundbreaking than what she is

She isn't a patch on Emeline who sings about the things women face in the world.... IMO of course

@NeverTalksToStrangers2

Taylor was cancelled in 2016. This was due to a culmination of criticism and oversaturation in the media (she's overexposed atm too probably, but I don't think it will harm her this time) and Kanye West and Kim Kardashian trying to ruin her career. They told lies about her and recorded a phonecall with Kanye and Taylor, choosing only to release clips of the parts that suited them. The full recording was leaked in 2020 (probably by Kris Jenner) and Taylor was proven to have been telling the truth the whole time.

I think a lot of that was a misunderstanding. When Kanye was getting backlash over the lyrics he said he had approval....because he had got approval for what he thought was the offensive part.... but then Taylors reps made it sound like even that hadn't been discussed so it all escalated from there.

Awful what happened though, and as a Kanye fan I think the video for Famous was disgraceful and I'm surprised there wasn't more outrage about that!

LOVE HER

Wish I was 14 😀 but nearly 50!

Listen to her albums on a loop - so so good.

Taylor Swift doesn't have a manager, doesn't have a management team. She conducts her business herself. She doesn't need PR. If she wants to publicise something, she posts it on Instagram.

You don't have to like her, but all the posts calling her a "product" and ascribing her success to her parents or producers or anyone else is pure nonsense.

As they say, Taylor Swift is the music industry.

For everyone posting lyrics trying to convince others to like her... You do realise it's meaningless right? I could post lyrics from my favourite artist but it would sound like random words without the music, singing, talent. It's the whole thing that brings a song together. TS lyrics posted so far all sound like nonsense to me.
When ever someone posts lyrics on social media regardless of artist, it always makes me cringe.

Are you fourteen ? 😂

I haven't read the full thread but while I enjoy Taylor Swift's music I think Masie Peters could give her a run for her money. I'm not sure if they are counted as the same generation musically though.

People like what they like and on the whole people tend to favour the music of their own/slightly previous/slightly after generations IMO. TS is not my thing, in terms of female singer songwriters Kate Bush is my thing, but then she's my generation and was, perhaps is still, something quite unique.

I think these 2 women had very different ideas about stardom and what to do with it, so it is an academic comparison. However, people like TS, pay an absolute fortune to go to her concerts, good luck to her and them.

Some of my favourite lyrics of hers;

"I want auroras and sad prose
I want to watch wisteria grow right over my bare feet
'Cause I haven't moved in years
And I want you right here
A red rose grew up out of ice frozen ground
With no one around to tweet it
While I bathe in cliffside pools
With my calamitous love and insurmountable grief"

"You know there's many different ways that you can kill the one you love, the slowest way is never loving them enough"

"Clover blooms in the fields Spring breaks loose, the time is near What would he do if he found us out? Crescent moon, coast is clear Spring breaks loose, but so does fear He's gonna burn this house to the ground"

And as for her greatest achievements
-She removed all of her music from Spotify and Apple music for years forcing them to pay artists fairly for streaming
-First woman to win Album of the Year at the grammys 3 times
-Only artist in HISTORY to have all 10 spots on the top 10 simultaneously
-Only artist to receive 200 million streams in a day on Spotify
-1989 TV debuted yesterday with 175 million streams which was the 2nd biggest debut in history...number one being Midnights. She's literally competing with herself at this point.

It's really hard to compare her to the likes of Queen, The Beatles, Michael Jackson ect because their legacy was based on CD sales and weren't on streaming (because it didn't exist) but I will say Taylor is probably the only artist still pulling in impressive CD/Vinyl numbers (Midnights sold 575,000 copies on Vinyl and 395,000 on CD...not bad for a medium that's rarely used these days)

But compared to streaming the numbers don't lie, she's up there with the greats;

The Beatles
Highest Streamed Song- Here Comes the Sun (1,114,469,016 streams)
Number of monthly listeners- 29.5 millon
Number of songs with over a billion streams- 1

Queen
Highest Streamed Song- Bohemian Rhapsody (2,284,617,617)
Number of monthly listeners- 46.9 million
Number of songs with over a billion streams- 5

Taylor Swift
Highest Streamed Song- Blank Space (1,568,073,074)
Number of monthly listeners- 101.4 million
Number of songs with a billion streams- 5

Plus she seems like a generally nice person, she's only recently been named a billionaire in the past couple of days but before that shes been giving away millions. Each tour stop she donates a huge amount to the local food bank (The one in Florida said it was enough for 125,000 meals). She gave all of her truck drivers 100,000 as a bonus for their hard work, she's covered fans medical bills, rent, she donated over 1 million for nashville tornado relief, ect ect.

People just love to hate on her but she's about to set the record for highest grossing female tour (Previously Madonna, Beyonce recently surpassed but once Taylor releases her numbers she'll completely smash it). She's literally on top of pretty much everything right now.

This

I loved AW and think it's incredibly sad she died so young. I do also think her legacy is enhanced slightly because of this as was she here still now who knows whether she would have continued to be so brilliant or not

Taylor is continuing to grow and I think her music is with her. She also seems determined to use her platform well and do good while she can.

I'm really glad DD looks up to her. There aren't many examples of positive young women for her to see

Nobody is 'just' their job. What a ridiculous way to look at life.

She's great, was gutted I failed to get tickets

Yeah I don't mean 23 years ago plus when referring to a modern female.

Wow, you’re so cool!!

I don’t know anyone who would say that Taylor Swift and Joni Mitchell are the same generation, given that they were born more than 40 years apart.

And you can fuck off insulting my intelligence.

She has more talent than many but I don’t think she phenomenal

She has probably the best pr in the business she has become a product that many have unquestionable belief in

I absolutely love The Beatles but I don’t think everything they recorded was fantastic or every song was an amazingly clever piece of writing

Who?