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Original poster

AIBU to say Taylor Swift is a once in a generation songwriter?

606 replies

HomeatRoseCottage · 27/10/2023 19:33

I’ve had 1989 TV on all day and she’s just magic 🥰

OP posts:
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lizkt · 27/10/2023 20:58

She's a poet. But you have to watch the lyric videos and know the history of Taylor, the backstabbing and the treachery to fully appreciate it.

I find myself drawn into the songs and the story more and more. So much to uncover.

Peachonthebeach · 27/10/2023 20:58

I think she’s very talented but the production of her songs is phenomenal.

WeeStyleIcon · 27/10/2023 20:56

Also I love "tolerate it". She's putting out the best crockery and he"s tolerating it. Amazing song. Love the music a d lyrics.

DeeCee77 · 27/10/2023 20:55

She doesn't write the songs.

She and a team of songwriters write the songs.

Has there been a single hit that she wrote by herself?

Freddie Mercury wrote 10 of the 17 songs on Queen's greatest hits album, including: "Bohemian Rhapsody", "Somebody to Love", "We Are the Champions", "Killer Queen" and "Don't Stop Me Now". Two of these (Bo Rhap and Champions) are more than just songs, they are part of global popular culture...Swift and her team has never come close to one of those.

As is well documented her voice is weak. She also has no charisma or stage presence. Like with her songwriting she is aided by a team of collaborators who design the stage(s). In other words outside gimmicks separate to her.

Someone mentioned white woman...I do think this "wholesome" character is a factor for her success (somewhat akin to the gigantic leg up given to Elvis who sang songs from black artists who racist white america ignored, hence he wasn't named in the Time 100 people of the century). She is a middling 'artist' who (with her collaborators) co-writes cheesy pop songs for teen girls. She didn't register here (UK) for a decade like she did in the US. Now she is having her "cabbage patch kids craze" moment, as many others had (Spice Girls were a much bigger deal btw, with only Princess Diana rivalling them for the front page).

She's not terrible, she's one of the better products of the current God awful generation of music. That's also probably why she stands out more today. But comparing her to Freddie Mercury for example it just becomes silly to think of her as anything but a disposable cheesy pop act.

sollenwir · 27/10/2023 20:55

HomeatRoseCottage · 27/10/2023 20:30

London Grammar:

And so, you built a life on trust
Though it starts, with love and lust
And when your house, begins to rust
Oh, it's just, metal and dust

We argue, we don't fight
We argue, we don't fight

And all foundation that we made
Built to last, they disintegrate
And when your house begins to rust
Oh, it's just, metal and dust

Taylor Swift:

I look through the windows of this love
Even though we boarded them up
Chandelier's still flickering here
'Cause I can't pretend it's ok when it's not
It's death by a thousand cuts

london grammar:

I am still holding onto your waistband
Turn away and kick out the red sand
Summer is gone and now I'm bleeding
I can't tell now you're thinking of leaving

taylor:

Back when we were still changin' for the better
Wanting was enough
For me, it was enough
To live for the hope of it all
Cancel plans just in case you'd call
And say, "Meet me behind the mall"
So much for summer love and saying "us"
'Cause you weren't mine to lose
You weren't mine to lose, no

london grammar

I’m giving you a nightcall to tell you how I feel
I’m gonna drive you through the night down the hills
I’m gonna tell you something you don’t want to hear
I’m gonna show you where it’s dumped but have no fear

Taylor

The burgundy on my T-shirt when you splashed your wine into me
And how the blood rushed into my cheeks, so scarlet, it was
The mark you saw on my collarbone, the rust that grew between telephones
The lips I used to call home, so scarlet, it was maroon

london grammar

Talk to me and watch me crumble
You will see me come undone
Faithfully I will look over
There I'll find what you've become

(What you've become)

You help me lose my mind
And you believe something I can't define

taylor

We gather stones, never knowing what they'll mean
Some to throw, some to make a diamond ring
You know I didn't want to have to haunt you
But what a ghostly scene
You wear the same jewels that I gave you
As you bury me
I didn't have it in myself to go with grace
'Cause when I'd fight, you used to tell me I was brave
And if I'm dead to you, why are you at the wake?
Cursing my name, wishing I stayed
Look at how my tears ricochet

I think London Grammar are great but on a side by side comparison I don’t think you can reasonably claim lyrical genius for them and designate Taylor as mere trashy romance

Show quote history

These are the lyrics you think are so special?

FrippEnos · 27/10/2023 20:54

she is good but she writes generally about the same things over and over, but she knows what will sell to her fans.
Occasionally her songs reach out to other people.
But for some, at this point in time, she could write complete dross and for her die hard fans it would be epic.

MelodiousThunk · 27/10/2023 20:53

Her lyrics are good but her actual songs are banal. We’ve heard the same I-V-vi-IV progression (or a minor variation there of) a million times. In the pop genre Billie Eilish (and her brother) do far more interesting stuff. Hell, Brittany was doing more musically interesting things over 2 decades ago.

She’s the female Ed Sheeran.

U2HasTheEdge · 27/10/2023 20:53

I think Taylor is amazing. So very talented. Ed Sheeran? He does not compare, IMO. I don't rate him as a song writer at all.

Original poster
HomeatRoseCottage · 27/10/2023 20:53

CranfordScones · 27/10/2023 20:49

Honestly couldn't name a single song by her.

I keep hearing people make similar claims about her greatness. I don't doubt the validity of the claim, I'm just surprised that not a single TS song has seeped in to my consciousness or crossed my path, whereas plenty of other recent songs have.

This is genuinely surprising. Maybe you would recognise some if you were played them?

OP posts:
WeeStyleIcon · 27/10/2023 20:53

I agree @HomeatRoseCottage she doesn't have a bad so.g. they"'re all good.
Off top of my head, maroon, lavender, exile, gold rush, delicate getaway, King of my heart, ❤️ her

Original poster
HomeatRoseCottage · 27/10/2023 20:52

Bbq1 · 27/10/2023 20:45

She's massively overrated and not that talented. Aren't all of her songs about her break ups with various celebs?

This is just a misogynistic take, tbh. For one thing, a lot of artists song about love and relationships and don’t get criticised for it (especially if they’re male). Taylor seems to be viewed as some serially inappropriate dater when she’s had about 8 boyfriends in her 33 years and her last relationship lasted 6 years.

She has also written a lot of songs which have nothing to do with relationships:

welcome to New York - about moving to a new city when you’re young and hopeful

shake it off - about not taking criticism to heart

long live - about her fans

Marjorie - about her grandmother

mad woman - about the double standards women fact

epiphany - about the Second World War and the covid pandemic

the last great American dynasty - about the life of an oil heiress who owned her house

clean - about recovering from an eating disorder

anti-hero - about feeling like you’re never good enough and don’t fit in

never grow up - about being on the cusp of adulthood and facing change

soon you’ll get better - about her mother’s battle with cancer

I could go on!

OP posts:
Screamingabdabz · 27/10/2023 20:51

I agree op but it’s cool on MN to diminish her and right her off as some shallow pointless pop princess. Same way Dolly Parton was treated as a vacuous cheap blonde but who wrote amazing songs that people love and have stood the test of time. People can’t get their head out of their own pretentious arses to admit that Taylor Swift has that talent.

sleepismyhobby · 27/10/2023 20:50

I love her ! I saw the eras concert at Odeon as couldn't get tickets she was amazing . She's a great songwriter

sollenwir · 27/10/2023 20:49

Jk987 · 27/10/2023 20:02

Sounds like she's too young and beautiful for some of the mumsnet readers! She's a great artist and performer and I would love to see her live! I like Trouble best.

It's possible to just not enjoy her music, and have no strong feelings on how she looks.....

CranfordScones · 27/10/2023 20:49

Honestly couldn't name a single song by her.

I keep hearing people make similar claims about her greatness. I don't doubt the validity of the claim, I'm just surprised that not a single TS song has seeped in to my consciousness or crossed my path, whereas plenty of other recent songs have.

midnights0 · 27/10/2023 20:48

I agree !!!! Been a fan since I was 15 and I'm 27 now. The lyricism is honestly incredible.

Nowherenew · 27/10/2023 20:47

taylorswift1989 · 27/10/2023 20:39

Someone like Rihanna can’t sing or dance well but a lot of the songs she brings out are really good (I assume she doesn’t write them but I don’t know).

Lol. One of Rihanna's biggest hits was written by Taylor Swift.

And I'm sorry, it's just bullshit to think that Taylor Swift could become one of the biggest artists in the world with no talent. The world just doesn't work that way.

Yes lots of people write good songs (pharell williams) and I’m sure she has wrote some songs that are good.

I guess she doesn’t release them herself because her product is a certain image and that’s what she’s famous for.

But it’s not disingenuous to say that she isn’t talented when it comes to singing or dancing.

If she didn’t have rich parents who knew the industry and created her into a character, then she wouldn’t be famous.

She is excellent at what she does, don’t get me wrong.

She definitely has been created into a product aimed at young teen girls, with a ‘good girl’ personality, which is unlike other singers her age. And she has made millions off of this persona, which is very clever.
But it’s not real.

HighlandCowbag · 27/10/2023 20:47

Dd is a massive fan and Ive had her as background noise for years. Then dd made a Taylor Playlist and said I should listen to it if I missed her. Well I did and she's fucking awesome. She's badass in the most recent albums and a proper pop princess early doors.

You have to listen to the lyrics. If ya don't want to that's fine. But as a 46 year old, who loves Pulp and James and Beautiful South I think she's awesome.

sollenwir · 27/10/2023 20:47

I'm glad you enjoy her music, and appreciate her writing skills.

Personally I cannot stand her music though.

MassageForLife · 27/10/2023 20:47

Bbq1 · 27/10/2023 20:45

She's massively overrated and not that talented. Aren't all of her songs about her break ups with various celebs?

What, all 200+ of them? Unlikely...

Karmaisagod · 27/10/2023 20:47

It is pointless to argue about these things. Although I firmly believe that Taylor is a genius and nothing will ever convince me otherwise, the deep joy her songs bring me is both undeniable and, ultimately, extremely personal, and I don't need to price a point or convince anyone else of her talent for the joy to continue to exist, unbridled, for hopefully many years to come. I know I'm not wrong about her, but if I was I couldn't care less.

Each to their own!

Martinisarebetterdirty · 27/10/2023 20:47

I love her. Went to the Eras cinema show with my DDs, came out fan girling her myself. Anyone who can get a cinema full of teenagers up dancing and cheering each other on even though they don’t know each other is quite frankly a genius. She does a lot for her team, is seemingly good to her fans and calls out bullshit. Cracking role model and I knew far more of her songs than I thought I did. Loved it.

ShowOfHands · 27/10/2023 20:46

She's not my cup of tea at all.

My favourite lyricist of the last 15yrs is Mike Rosenberg (Passenger) who is v talented but mainly known for one freak hit which doesn't reflect his other output.

Huhuhuhu · 27/10/2023 20:46

Bbq1 · 27/10/2023 20:45

She's massively overrated and not that talented. Aren't all of her songs about her break ups with various celebs?

One other thing I admire about her is not giving a f* about what others think, boyfriend wise.
She has had many men, so what?
Male celebs sleep around and don't get as much shtick as taylor. At least she doesn't cheat on her partners. Yet, judged more harshly for being a woman.

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