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wonder what has happened to couple who freebirthed in Carribean?

388 replies

StrangerYears · 19/10/2023 03:43

Clive and Iuliia Gurzhii were all over the news for 3 days in August, after idiotically going to give birth on a beach a long way from home.
The birth was unwitnessed and very odd circumstances.
I googled them and all I could find was a gofundme (never saw that one coming!!) - it raised GBP128 out of an ambitious target of GBP15.000.

Do you think they are still out there?

OP posts:
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13
PenelopePitStrop · 06/09/2024 10:49

Are we sure the baby has been brought to the Uk?

Could she be a ward of England and Wales (as reported) but with a foster family in the Cayman Islands?

There are so many similarities with A.N.Other case (still sub judice) of an unlikely couple, attempting to conceal the birth of a child, playing fast and loose with passports, a male partner who also quoted Freeman / Sovereign Cit stuff, and planned to engage a people smuggler as part of the plan to conceal the baby.

Cult of one and Stockholm Syndrome as suggested by a PP sounds right, in both cases.

PollyDactyl · 06/09/2024 10:25

Good point about protecting the older child's identity, Peridot1

Peridot1 · 06/09/2024 10:14

@PollyDactyl - it is indeed a complete mess.

I think it’s interesting that it hasn’t been covered by the media here since the early days but I suppose it could be to protect the older child here.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 10:13

HoppingPavlova · 06/09/2024 10:07

So, can Iulia go to England/Wales when she is released or not? I’m confused about this part as she is not a Citizen I would think, wouldn’t have a British passport I’d imagine, and her residency permit would likely be a grey area given the shenanigans she has partaken in. However, she has one (possibly two) children in care in England/Wales.

She probably will be allowed to appeal to return to the UK on those grounds, especially since I believe she is Ukrainian which complicates matters in terms of ability to remove her back to Ukraine in any circumstances. Given that the Caymans are also under the control of the UK as well (but have their own systems) I suspect she is under the juridication of the ECHR too. I think she'd have a reasonable case to return to the UK.

I think she's probably lucky that she is currently in the Caymans rather than one of the other islands she's been hanging about on though because it may have made her case weaker though.

PollyDactyl · 06/09/2024 10:11

Christ what a mess.

Thnx Red for the precis.

HoppingPavlova · 06/09/2024 10:07

So, can Iulia go to England/Wales when she is released or not? I’m confused about this part as she is not a Citizen I would think, wouldn’t have a British passport I’d imagine, and her residency permit would likely be a grey area given the shenanigans she has partaken in. However, she has one (possibly two) children in care in England/Wales.

Burntout101 · 06/09/2024 10:04

All the baddies seem to be called Clive at the moment...

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 09:33

nothingcomestonothing · 06/09/2024 09:25

You missed out the part where the 8 year old who was left behind in the care of ?teenage cousin or someone was flagged to social care and Clive wrote bad prose about how she was ripped from the loving arms of her father (despite both parents having pissed off to the Carribbean for months without her).

The poor children, lumbered with this grandiose idiot.

I was actually trying to avoid saying that tbh.

It didn't need repeating.

But yes.

nothingcomestonothing · 06/09/2024 09:25

You missed out the part where the 8 year old who was left behind in the care of ?teenage cousin or someone was flagged to social care and Clive wrote bad prose about how she was ripped from the loving arms of her father (despite both parents having pissed off to the Carribbean for months without her).

The poor children, lumbered with this grandiose idiot.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 09:16

MabelMaybe · 06/09/2024 09:12

@RedToothBrush thank you for this. Did Iulia return with baby?

Nope. Iulia got 40 months.

MabelMaybe · 06/09/2024 09:12

@RedToothBrush thank you for this. Did Iulia return with baby?

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 09:06

MugPlate · 06/09/2024 08:30

Please can someone do a summary post? I can’t rtft, it’s confusing.

Summary

Clive and Iullia ran off to the Caribbean supposedly so Iulia could free birth on a beach. They left an eight year old in the UK. Iulia had the baby but they didn't attend hospital. When they eventually came to get a birth certificate they couldnt as the authorities wouldn't issue a birth certificate because of the non hospital birth (to verify Iullia as the mother and eliminate the possibility that the baby had been trafficked in someway) within the required period.

They then went to a different country (crossing borders illegally) and tried to apply for a British passport for the baby and to get consular help over the birth certificate.

This further complicated matters as people weren't happy about the border hopping. Clive prattled something about not recognising the legitimacy of borders and how they shouldn't apply to him (there were tones of 'because I am a white British male). Then Clive had a tantrum that he was required to do a DNA test to prove he was the baby's father (the baby wouldn't necessarily qualify for British citizen through Iullia as I don't believe she has British citizenship). He went to the press claiming how awful it was it was taking so long, how unhelpful the embassy were at sorting out the mess of his own making, how he was separated from his elder daughter which was appalling and how much he missed her and how much it was all costing him to stay in the Carribbean. He talked about how he was living on a boat he'd 'borrowed from a friend'. Then he launched a gofundme. Which raised about 50p and a old soggy haribo.

MN were intrigued by the story so did some digging and worked out he'd got three separate identities, had been in some sort of running scandal for cheating and was clearly a weirdo freeman of the land. Then a 'friend' of Clive's (clearly Clive) came on MN saying how lovely Clive and Iullia was and how terribly they'd been treated in semi-literate prose. Which was rather amusing at the time. It all rumbled on for a bit longer then the story went dead.

MN posters still intrigued by the story have requested updates on what eventually happened and whether Clive and Iullia were happily reunited with their older daughter in the UK and how Clive eventually paid for everything. Someone picked up on how Clive and Iullia had stayed in the Carribbean and turned up in the Caymans illegally suspected of illegal entry and people smuggling. (It seems they never returned to their daughter). They were named in the initial newspaper reports. It didn't really surprise anyone. When the first story came round people suggested drug smuggling or trafficking as there was an unexplainable gap in income between what Clive was doing and his life back in the UK.

These last few reports have removed names but they say it's a unique case with no one having charged with people smuggling before in the Caymans and the details otherwise match. Including the point about not recognising the authority of the court.

It's actually a really sad story about a man who couldn't give a shit about the welfare of his wife and kids and has gone nuts with conspiracy theories and is a deeply unpleasant racist who makes money from abusing people and human trafficking.

It reads like a bad film script that no one would believe.

Clive is now doing 4 years in the Cayman Islands. Baby has been returned to the UK.

MountUnpleasant · 06/09/2024 08:47

Shittenshite · 19/10/2023 04:33

After a quick Google search

Birthing person lol. 🤦🏼‍♀️

fadedrose · 06/09/2024 08:45

Wow. I followed the original thread and this has taken a turn! I can’t believe the media haven’t picked up on it after the original story.

NearlyAugust · 06/09/2024 08:42

~ "The two Ethiopians were found locked in the vessel's cabin." While they and child were out having a nice meal!!!

~ That baby has been separated from the defendants since their arrest on 14 May this year and is now a ward of the Court of England and Wales.

~

NearlyAugust · 06/09/2024 08:38

Although I do feel sorry for their kids and any adults they smuggled, but this is spot on ....

I mean if it was film you wouldn't believe it! I still can't believe the Daily Mail haven't picked it up.

It's just fantastic! It's like thinking your favourite TV program is just a 6 part mini-drama but then discovering it has a second series and a spin off show!!

Peridot1 · 06/09/2024 08:32

They are both complete idiots. The poor baby. And the older child.

@FarmGirl78 how and why were you messaging Clive?

MugPlate · 06/09/2024 08:30

Please can someone do a summary post? I can’t rtft, it’s confusing.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 08:18

If Clive got 4 years but Iulia got 40 months, Iullia has time away from this nut job to see just how much of a numpty he is. Maybe she will manage to sort her life out without his brainswashing influence. Clive is unlikely to get out early for good behaviour because he's liable to kick off at every little thing. Iulia may do the same initially but having to cope without him might be a blessing.

That's literally the only potential positive I can see from this shit show.

nothingcomestonothing · 06/09/2024 07:43

If the baby is now a ward of the English courts presumably a DNA test can be done and the parentage confirmed?

Two children now in care and for what? Selfish idiots.

dhxxx · 06/09/2024 06:44

dhxxx · 06/09/2024 06:38

Actually seems as though they've been sentenced - 4 years and the baby has come back to the UK

caymanmarlroad.com/2024/09/05/man-gets-4-years-imprisonment-for-human-smuggling/

dhxxx · 06/09/2024 06:38

Seems as though the trial was this week looking at the court summarys:

judicial.ky/wp-content/uploads/courts/summary-court/SummaryCourtList-September5,2024ChiefMagistrateHernandez.pdf

RedHelenB · 06/09/2024 05:40

SunsetBeauregarde · 20/10/2023 21:54

Which mother? My best friend and her wife are both mothers to their beautiful baby girl, and the use of ‘birthing parent’ has been brilliant for them as medical professionals have needed to distinguish which one of them gave birth.

We have stepmother as a term. Maybe there needs to be a new term for the lesbian mother who doesn't give birth?
I don't mind biological mother /father as regards making it clear for medical professionals.

FarmGirl78 · 06/09/2024 05:13

I started reading this thread not realising it's age...... I've TOTALLY missed all the kerfuffle in November, a hence me replying to the other post. It's just fantastic! It's like thinking your favourite TV program is just a 6 part mini-drama but then discovering it has a second series and a spin off show!!

The original thread on this was wild, and I decided not to post about it at the time because I didn't want it to get any more out of hand, but I'd managed to get in touch with Clive and he actually messaged me back. At that point he said they'd actually been for the DNA test and were just awaiting the results. A lot of his message was just him ranting about one of the local policeman, but the actual comprehension and language just wasn't the greatest so I wasn't sure if it was him or Yuliya replying. I felt like I was baiting him for gossip, and Yuliya seemed pretty vulnerable so I didn't message again. But I've always wondered how they got on. The man's a complete fruit loop isn't he?

HoppingPavlova · 06/09/2024 04:40

Depends if either agreed to a DNA test. Which they seemed to be refusing and I don't think you can force that. So he'd be putting his principles over the child. Unsurprisingly

See, this is where I refuse to believe the child is theirs. I fully understand Clive is unhinged and, even if the bio dad, wouldn’t give his DNA because (?? insert some nutty belief here). But I refuse to believe a mother wouldn’t give her DNA if the child was hers and the alternative was giving up her child. I think, as a woman, keeping your baby would override whatever nutty belief you may have and you would do it. The only reason you would stick to your guns is if you know the baby is not yours so whether you give DNA or not, the baby will be taken irrespective.