wonder what has happened to couple who freebirthed in Carribean?

I find the fact that no UK media outlet have picked up on this story as a bit suspicious!

I mean it has everything!

Would there be some sort of gagging order or something through the courts?

Being a ward of the court doesn't necessarily mean the baby is back in the UK though. It just means the High Court decide what will happen for any of the major decisions.

Arguably, back in the same general location as an older sibling so that contact is possible would seem sensible, but on the other hand that means contact with the mother is not possible so the baby could be in foster care with a court appointed guardian, close to wherever the mother is in prison.

I noticed there was a "Contact the organiser" button on the JustGiving page. I messaged and he replied. It comes through as an email so I could email back. As I said someone said something which made me feel bad for Yuliya who was clearly vulnerable so shortly after birth with a newborn and no home, so I stopped messaging and never posted about it. I wouldn't have said anything about it now had it not been for the fact that they're both now in jail. They might be idiots but I don't want to be responsible for anyone getting doxed! 🤣

What an unbelievable chain of events to avoid a hospital birth.

I very much doubt that it really happened that way. It's looking far more likely they cooked up the free birth story to try to account for the fact they couldn't prove when and where the baby was born. Because she was born on a yacht that was engaged in people trafficking. And they kept moving on when people asked awkward questions when they tried to register the birth.

What a spectacular downfall - going from flying abroad to fulfil a free birth dream to sailing the seas trafficking people to ending up in prison and no custody of either child. What an unbelievable chain of events to avoid a hospital birth.

Yes I think it was established that the elder daughter is theirs. Her name is known, because he made it public, but of course not appropriate to mention it here.

I'd like to know where and when he learned how to handle an oceangoing yacht, or if there were others on board doing the actual work.

I expect there are ongoing police enquiries tracing the money and the contacts.

Yes from original thread there was discussion re if older daughter was with a different partner.
His wife and baby (elder daughter) were in car when he was convicted of dangerous driving and I think one report someone found referred to wife as Iulia (possibly spelled with a J)
The go fund me era press articles referred to leaving their older daughter behind in England with a relative of Iulia.

Note:
Hernandez ordered the confiscation of the yacht and the US$3,946 found on it.

And

The court heard the couple’s baby daughter, who was also on board, is now a ward of the High Court of England and Wales.

Not the Cayman Islands.

I find it fascinating just HOW much shit one bloke can cause by being a die-hard dedicated walloper! (On top of clearly being a nasty bastard, if the people smuggling and almost certainly worse... is true).

https://www.caymancompass.com/2024/09/06/yacht-couple-convicted-of-smuggling-ethiopian-refugees/

He does have an interesting digital footprint.

For someone who objects to being monitored, he's allowed the Internet to do a great job of monitoring him.....maybe behave and keep your head down, matey boy!

Not sure we totally know the elder daughter is Lulia's - def Clive's (well he said his daughter was ripped from his arms).

I was really over invested in this for the original MN thread!

In 2016 he was in court for a driving offence in 2015 with his wife and baby in the car. That matched the age reported for the older child. Of course doesn’t mean it was his, but I noted it because I’d assumed 8 year age gap between children and significantly younger foreign wife meant the older child wasn’t his.

He’s got quite the digital footprint, has our Clive!

ETA: Sorry - reread and I think you’re saying it might be his child but not Iulia’s?

Not sure we totally know the elder daughter is Lulia's - def Clive's (well he said his daughter was ripped from his arms).

I bet the British Consulate in the Caymens dreads any calls about Clive!

"Oh no what the fuck has he done now!"

I mean people trafficking wasn't even a thing in the Caymens!

I am totally obsessed by this story!

edit - I stand corrected that article is clear it is “their” child. Thanks @Dixiechickonhols

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/uk-world-news/new-mum-stranded-after-being-8669669

Just re read original article. Timeline is left UK and elder daughter who was then aged 8 March 23, baby born April 23.
Only the couple know true story but it’s possible mum thought it was only for a few weeks.

@RedToothBrush we were on the original detective thread together I think!
They’re all valid points.
I even said if I had to pick I’d blame Clive. 90% cos he’s an obvious arsehole (he cheated in a fell race!!!) and 10% because (I may get roasted now) I think men are more highly represented in the arsehole class than women.

BUT… there’s still every possibility that she wasn’t vulnerable and is just as much an arsehole as she is. And the older girl (8, when this started?) is also Clive’s so I expect her English is as good as mine.

I find it interesting that she’s also denied the authority of the court. She’d have done better to throw herself at their mercy and blame him, I expect. Maybe it’s because she’s too scared, abuse runs deep.

I just don’t think anyone can conclude that she was especially vulnerable, and not just another arsehole like him.

Poor kids though 😔

She was living in a different country from her home country with a man 13 years older than her. She flies half way around the world to give birth on a beach without medical attention available. She's been encouraged not to go to hospital afterwards, which then made it difficult to register the birth. She then finds herself in another foreign country with a very young baby whilst financially completely dependent on this man. All of these are red flags of abuse.

Explain to me in what way she's not extremely vulnerable to being exploited?

Is she a low life scum bag happy to profit from traffiking or someone who has been another victim of Clive?

I think this is very much an open question, and one I'm not willing to jump to conclusions on. I am certainly not doing it because 'she has a vagina'. I'm doing it because there are clear concerns about her being potentially being more vulnerable than a British partner with english as her first language.

It definitely begs a few more questions to be asked in terms of how much agency she felt she had and where she felt she might have been able to have turned for help and the degree of control Clive had.

I’m a little uncomfortable at some people basically letting Iulia off the hook here. Yes, this is MN so we all know about coercive control and Stockholm syndrome. And honestly, if I had to decide who was worse here, I’d vote Clive.
But… just cos she’s got a vagina doesn’t mean that she didn’t willingly leave her older daughter behind in the U.K. months before she (probably) gave birth, and doesn’t mean she isn’t low life scum happy to profit from people trafficking.

It’s a mess but would be a cracking piece of research/series of exam questions for a law student. So many different areas of law touched upon.

My recollection is you can be ward of court but not physically in country.
For the privacy of the two children I agree it’s best not to speculate, it’s clear both are on appropriate authorities radar now.

@RedToothBrush Good summary. I’d also add Clive has several name changes but he has a conviction for dangerous driving (when wife and eldest daughter was a baby in car)

Not necessarily. It's technically part of the UK and it depends on the facilities available for fostering etc in the Caymans.

And I assume being UK means that they have established her parentage?

It would likely be deemed that, if possible, the two siblings should have contact because that would be in their best interests to do that unless there was a compelling reason not to facilitate it. Even if they are not living together. Draw your own conclusions from that in terms of what may or may not happen.

I agree.

It was said above the the baby has been returned to the UK… I’m just interested to know whether legally, being a ward of E/W necessarily means that the child is here.

We don't know where the baby is. Just that she is currently a Ward of Court (E/W specified in the linked article, but I've no idea whether/how the jurisdictions work together)

Just as we don't know the circumstances of the older child, beyond the bare fact that social services have been involved (Clive ranted publicly about that).

And I think it's right that the DC have privacy beyond what's already in the public domain.