wonder what has happened to couple who freebirthed in Carribean?

I panicked and deleted it haha but it was to the random Facebook page he’s posting from! He sounds actually like he is very unwell with all of the bizarre things he is sharing!

Such nonsense in the comments, like the child being taken into care at gunpoint at Chester Zoo.

@ConsiderateStork it’s linking to your facebook I think. I’d delete link.

Thanks for update. That first anonymous comment on the link is Clive.
It sounds like baby was sent to uk as Clive and Julia in prison in Cayman.

Thank you, that is interesting. I don't understand how their sentences were reduced, though. As if the UK courts would not punish that behaviour seriously.

Update for you - just heard about this after I saw a rambling post from the dude on Facebook about his kids being taken away and being falsely accused etc - so did some googling.. so weird!

https://caymannewsservice.com/2025/07/mysterious-human-smuggling-conviction-sticks/

I think there was a kerfuffle when social workers turned up to check Elisabeth and she ran away. It’s possible Aunt was arrested if there was breach of peace etc. Clive came back to England at that point presumably to try and ensure Elizabeth could stay with relatives and not go into foster care. Mum couldn’t come back as baby had no passport so she stayed behind. Presumably Clive was happy with what arrangements were agreed with ss as he left Elizabeth again and embarked on the people smuggling run he was arrested for.

You don't get arrested for looking after a family member, or for leaving your child with a relative. It's all freeman paranoia

I think the last we had from the UK press was that SS were concerned about Elizabeths whereabouts/who was caring for her and when they'd gone looking, she'd done a runner/been sneaked away...

So Clive had had to return... and the police/SS wanted to speak to him, understandably.

Relatives who were babysitting were arrested on fabricated charges, forcing Clive to rush back, where he was also hunted down and arrested while trying to stop Elizabeth’s removal.

Think I missed an update somewhere - so Iuilia’s teenage sister was also arrested? And Clive came back to the UK and was arrested, then went back to the Caymans to do his people smuggling job?

Not as far as we are aware.

However baby which wasn't born in hospital and they tried to register outside normal challenges (so could have been trafficked) AND THEN getting involved in definite trafficking is a big coincidence.

Would you know how to get in touch with a trafficker? They did.

That's a point about the age gap. Thinking back to the Constance Marten/Mark Gordon case, had they been located before the baby died (or successfully fled the country), there would never have been any press coverage of the family court history with their older children. All that only came out because of the criminal trial.

So with this pair, there may be so much that just can't be published and probably never will be.

Did they actually confirm that this was actually their baby and not a trafficked baby?

Nah, I can't see Clive being any good at people smuggling - as is evidenced by them being caught...

Clive being in with the sort of people who are involved in people smuggling/drugs, on the fringes, and thus being able to borrow/acquire a boat - yes. And then once living illegally on a boat in the Caribbean... even more so.

He's too much of a loud mouthed idiot though to be any sort of big cheese/organiser... he's someone who some fool has trusted to do the donkey work, way way way down the bottom of the chain. Manual labour.

I think the whole 'baby on a beach' was them avoiding UK SS... as they've got a ton of past history with them and concerns for their child/children.

And then the botched attempt at people smuggling was a desperate act to raise money that they'd badly need - maintaining a boat, even there, and even where you cut all corners, don't pay mooring fees etc... is spendy AF and so is keeping it stocked with food/water etc.

I hadn't realised/had forgotten that the older child is also Iulias - that is a long gap between kids... are there other kids that have been removed? I guess we won't know.

Makes more sense she'd risk a freebirth having given birth before though. It also makes it a bit less likely that she's naive and clueless - she could still be being co-erced by Clive... but I don't really buy that. I think she's in it up to her neck as much as he is.

The care proceedings for the children will be part of why it hasn't had much reporting, I guess? If they'd left the country because they thought the baby would be removed at birth, then that indicates that there is a whole load of background with social services and family court that can't be reported.

I'm pretty sure the older child was both of theirs, so the baby wasn't Iullia's first. I think, anyway. It's a bit hard to tell WTF is what with this story!

For anyone who missed it, here is the original thread from two years ago. Get your preferred refreshments, sit back and put your feet up.

I have no words - woman now stranded after wanting to give birth in St Lucia (on the beach...) | Mumsnet

Ooooooo @WiddlinDiddlin a press embargo makes sense! This is such a click bait highly readable story!

I too kept wondering why it wasn't being picked up. We know the Daily Mail frequents this site looking for stories!!

I also think you'd have to be several shades of lunatic to want to freebirth at 40 on a foreign beach, particularly if its your first baby... so is this Iulias first baby?!

Well Clive is several shades of lunatic... but I don't think that's what actually happened. (It isn't her first baby, the older child is also hers.)

I was reading back through this thread when it first popped up again and I see I said before that I think the wanting to give birth on a beach story is bollocks. I think people smuggling is what they were at all along and the freebirthing is just a cover story.

And I think the authorities are probably looking into the people smuggling, asking questions like who supplied Clive with the boat and who told him where to find the Ethiopians. And if they are hoping to make other arrests and bring other charges, that would explain the apparent news blackout.

Though it is a bit odd - if you were running a peole smuggling racket, would you employ Clive?

I assume DNA must have been done in order to remove the baby from Cayman Brac - even if the authorities/processes on Cayman Brac are a bit... sloppy (the two Ethiopians did a bunk despite having been questioned!), bringing the child into the UK would have to have been by the book.

The more I think about it, the more I think Clive and Iulia had strong reason to think the baby would be removed from them at birth had she given birth in the UK.

I reckon he thought having the baby on a beach in the caribbean would mean that as Iulia is not a british citizen, the baby would not be one either and this then meant the UK authorities could not take the child... (obviously, not, but we sort of know how Clive thinks about these things!).

Otherwise... all of gestures wildly like Trump playing speed accordion this - are some extreme lengths to go to to avoid vaccination and whatever else it is he's actually stated.

I also think you'd have to be several shades of lunatic to want to freebirth at 40 on a foreign beach, particularly if its your first baby... so is this Iulias first baby?!

The other thing that makes me think theres more we don't know - the UK apparent press embargo on mentioning them at all. This is prime Daily Mail fodder... why can't the UK press report on it? I don't think the older child being abandoned in the UK is sufficient for that, theres other skeletons lurking.

If both the children are in care (which is what the PP asked) then the local authority will have care orders for them and therefore have overriding PR so they can consent on the children's behalf. However most likely this would have been done during care proceedings for one or both of the children and a direction given by the court for testing. A court can definitely order a DNA test to be carried out. However if the older child is Fraser competent she might be able to refuse consent herself and the order couldn't be complied with if she was old enough to refuse.

Yes, but consent will still have to be granted by an appropriate authority ie whoever is acting as the parent currently.

It cannot be forced (by the court) to be physically carried out if the person does not give consent. That would be an assault.

Yes for sure

If both the children are now in care, can the courts order DNA tests to establish or confirm whether they are sisters?

It's a weird situation because the Cayman are a British Overseas Territory not a state in their own right. They have their own court system and rules but they still remain part of the UK.

This means that in the event of a child being found and they don't know who the parents are, they become a ward of the English courts. No one can be stateless (in theory at least they aren't supposed to) so in the situation of not knowing someones real parents, the state would assume responsibility and in a situation of a trafficked child where it was deemed unlikely that they could establish parentage of the state would in effect assume parental rights thus the child would be given British nationality.

I'm assuming that if both Clive and Iiulia have refused tests - this would automatically mean they lose parental rights and the State would assume them.

This would explain how the baby could be a ward of the English court despite never having had a DNA test and would be granted British Citizenship by default due to these two being feckless even if they genuinely are the parents.