AIBU to believe FIL time slip experience?

Ah that’s for answering

The use of drugs is an interesting matter.. Have you read Huxleys Doors of Perception? He makes an interesting point People like Blake can see this alternative world naturally and it weaves round what people might call the ordinary world whereas others (such as himself) need drugs. I always thought this was strange as he was an author and just assumed he would fall into the Blake category .

I’m never really sure what rekindle is doing - I would consider it a type of almost guided meditation. But not something I’ve ever been drawn to. What made you a practitioner?

Re past lives. I have done this I find it very interesting, But was my detailed story a past life or my brain creating a story to make sense of a deep seated understanding of my current life. Could be either- I have no real way of knowing to me it doesn’t matter - I’m happy with that.

why did you find lucid dreaming boring? There’s a great line from the song Silent Lucidity by Queensryche

“Living twice at once you learn
You're safe from pain in the dream domain
A soul set free to fly
A round trip journey in your head
Master of illusion, can you realize
Your dream's alive, you can be the guide”

Sorry, I missed your post re the need for fact checking. How does this work? It must be rather exhausting I should imagine. Memories are Variously reliable and largely a matter of story telling. Yet most of the time we are confident in their accuracy. Do you have a system for fact checking memories?

Being human is tremendously complicated - Jeremy vine used to have a segment (he might still do occasionally) on what it means to be human. The answers were so different for each person and really that’s the answer. We all are so unique. None of us experiences life in the sane way., there’s the real possibility that there are as many realities as there are people. If we both witnessed an event a month ago, which of our memories is correct? Time slips might exist in some realities but not others. Your fact checking can only ever exist in your reality and be a reflection of your philosophical position.

I think this line of thinking has tremendous possibilities in the fields of mental health and dementia. But we’re so busy on the uphill struggle to make everyone the same we don’t stop to recognise the value and purpose of these differences

I’ve certainly enjoyed our conversation on the topic.

I think where we may differ is that, while I will not outright and conclusively state the impossibility of (say) the Bold Street time portal, I cannot say that I give any credence to the claims whatsoever. I see it more as a very abstract (but fun) philosophical question than something that would inform my day to day mindset. I get the sense that you are far more open to the possibility than I but I may be wrong.

I’m sure that you and I both engage in the weighing of evidence. For me, and re Bold Street, the evidence in support of the claims is so vanishingly slight compared to the evidence against that the possibility that actual time travel (or similar) has occurred is so remote that it is not worthy of serious consideration.

It would be helpful, for me to better understand your position, if you could put a very rough percentage figure on your perception of the likelihood of time travel (or similar) having occurred specifically on Bold Street, in the manner described. Although my question is specific to Bold Street, I accept that other claims of time slips (like the one in the OP) are relevant evidence.

So far as I have been able to tell, there are no first hand accounts available to read, just third-party retellings that might reasonably be characterized as Urban myths - they have been collected and summarized by various publications in broadly the same manner, so I don’t think you’d need to read far and wide by any means, I just think it would be more appropriate for you to pick a source or two than have me provide them.

Just to confirm, I’m not trying for a ‘gotcha’ or anything like that, I think our chat is approaching an end, but I think a % would help me better understand your mindset and I have no intention of critiquing it. I also appreciate that a % might be a very difficult form of measurement and that whatever answer you give today might be different tomorrow and the day after.

For me, and my subjective perspective, the odds are a very small fraction of 1%, probably more like 0.0000000000000000001%, if not slimmer.

Thanks in advance for indulging me, if you choose do so, otherwise thank you for discussion.

@Maatandosiris - thanks for asking.
Hypnotherapy, guided visualisations & self-hypnosis, yes.
Past life regression - no, it's exploitative bullshit ime.
Lucid dreaming - did it for a while, got bored.
Shamanic journeying - do acid trips count?
Bonus - I'm a 'certified reiki practitioner'. More exploitative bs.

I get what you're saying about not really needing to know whether something's real (or how real it is). As I posted upthread, I have strong reasons for needing to know so have developed a habit of fact checking. I've got no outstanding ability here - I always fail those 'AI or not' tests - but what I have got is a fully featured, multifunctional reality-checking toolkit 🤓

The shoring up thing....

Controversial suggestion

Is it a reverse psychology thing? Is that why sceptics post? Sceptics post because they are looking to other to shore up their beliefs in the face of (non scientific) testimony to the contrary?

Personally I just thought it was because people like to debate things they care about.

I think the concept of reality is very difficult. Even the most ardent realist must accept that all of what we perceive has an element of subjectivity.

it is, of course possible that somehow my film is me tapping into a multiverse and not my imagination at all, or maybe that’s what imagination is, a gateway to another universe. When you write, if you write “fiction” maybe you’re writing up real life events in another dimension you have a link to. You just perceive this as happening in your head.

Really the possibilities are endless.

In my spiritual practice I’m constantly faced with situations where I can never be sure if something is real or not. But for the most part, once you break it down the answer to this is of very little consequence, the important thing is my experience of it.

As a matter of interest have you ever tried anything to access alternative states of consciousness eg, past life regression, lucid dreaming, shamanic journeying? Sorry you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to

I don't underestimate the human mind at all. But I do think that we are the era of the mind when actually we don't understand the mind at all.

It's all too easy to write something off as being based in the mind whilst ignoring real life environmental and body impacts.

Much of life may happen as a result of synapse firing in the brain, but why they fire is another question

Interesting that you are apparently holding yourself out as one of the “sensible people” yet you haven’t managed to raise a single point of debate on the topic. All you’re intent on doing is shouting abuse.

interestingly spiritual people generally like discussion, they are usually happy to discuss points with respectful individuals. You don’t seem able to extend the same courtesy.

you don’t need shutting down because it appears you have nothing to say.,

I doubt anyone will be engaging further with you so good night and sweet dreams

I also had a premonition like experience. I was visiting a friend who’d just had her first baby and was living in a city at the time. In the premonition her and I were at a park overlooking the sea, she had two little boys and I had two little girls who were younger than her boys. It was very vivid but only lasted seconds, it had such an impact on me that I told my friend at the time. I was 20 and having children was not on my agenda at that time. In time my friend had another son and moved to a seaside town and I had two daughters. I visited her there and the exact premonition happened. Very spooky!

I have a permanent film running in my head I can access whenever I want. The question is is this real?

Very good question, @Maatandosiris. Obviously I'd say no, much as it may feel real. But how much more or less real is it than the paranormal experiences retold here?

I accept [my premonitions] and I'm trying to make sense of them. So I'm open to listening to scientific explanation - that makes you a rarity, @Fionaville!

I think being able to create an alternative universe is extremely common, I have a permanent film running in my head I can access whenever I want. The question is is this real?

I don’t think people are underestimating the human mind. The difference lies in the understanding of what the human mind is and what it is actually doing and it’s purpose

Yes, I’m always surprised that more people don’t have such experiences, I suspect many more do but are afraid of ridicule or are convicted to explain things away,

And yes some of the most intelligent people I know are believers in the paranormal in different ways. Most will happily discuss a broad range of topics from philosophy to politics from history to literature to theoretical physics to astronomy.

why does writing make you feel special? Do you feel special in a room full of writers

No, because not all writers experience this but many do. And a roomful of writers doesn't talk about writing or share ideas (in case someone nicks them!) It makes me feel 'special' because it's an intensely personal experience and I think I'm quite lucky to have it. Would be luckier to have it every time I write, mind you.

MN has had many threads where members talk about being able to live in an imaginary world, to the extent they can really believe themselves starring in a glamorous movie or being the heroic doctor in a dreadful emergency while actually doing their housework or commuting. I really envy that! It's a special gift, imo.

I do think many people on this thread have seriously underestimated the wonders of the human mind.

@GarlicGrace The issue I have with the "I'm special" thing, is that I really don't think it is special. I actually think it's something that everybody has the ability to realise. I also don't see it as a special gift. One I had in particular will plague me until the day I die.
I don't tell anybody apart from DH and my mum. It wouldn't be seen as 'special' at all, everyone would think I was either crackers or a complete bullshitter. Unless I tried to prove myself and why would I want to do any of that? To what end?
The only way I 'document' it, is to tell my DH or my mum when I have them, in as much detail as I can (unless it's something really terrible) We are always trying to work out how or why I might have 'seen' something, or look at how it could just be a coincidence. Occasionally we can come up with a rational explanation, but not usually. They've both seen me do it too many times to not believe me.
I don't need the acceptance or for it to be reinforced by strangers. It's not a religion or a belief system. These things happen to me. I don't want them to. But I accept them and I'm trying to make sense of them. So I'm open to listening to scientific explanation, thats the only thing to be gained from this and a comfort that there may be others who experience the same. Because its actually quite scary.

Im not sure if personally I do gain anything in terms of shoring up. If I posted on this thread or not

I'm not sure it's special either. I have trouble believing other people dont have these experiences because they are so normal to me and wonder if because they believe they are impossible they attribute them to chance or coincidence. In then wonder if some people are more sensitive and some people are less sensitive so genuinely they don't have them.

It bothers me that threads like these tend to get ridiculed by sceptics and I do think that needs challenging. You can be interested in science, be intelligent and believe in woo.

What I have never done is doubt the stuff I have experienced, I know there's been some weird shit, so I haven't ever needed it "shoring up".

With all due respect I’m not sure you really understand divination. There are many types of divination, traditionally most require a level of personal meditation and interpretation.

Or are you talking about clairvoyance/audience? I don’t think anyone coming out and claiming such experiences is claiming to be anything special.

people come to talk to others who share the same beliefs, not to feel special but to talk through their experiences without being side tracked by people being disrespectfully sceptical - it’s tiresome and boring. It can be very stimulating talking to some sceptics of course.

why does writing make you feel special? Do you feel special in a room full of writers or is it a great opportunity to discuss things with people with shared interests and experiences

As a skeptic (and as someone who does believe that the vast majority of people who make money out of psychic readings, communicating with the dead and alike are knowing fraudsters), I am equally sure that many people do genuinely believe they have some sort of extra sensory ability. I don’t believe that they actually do have these abilities but I don’t think they are liars and fraudsters, nor would I call them such.

One thing that’s has stuck with me (both from my own experience in accompanying someone to a reading and, later, watching relevant tv shows…not Derren) is how easily some people will forget all the ‘misses’ but and only remember the ‘hits’.

I.e., where a psychic gets 10 things wrong for every one they get right, the person having the reading will often leave it absolutely amazed at the psychic’s accuracy - clinging hard to the rare instances where the psychic was right and seemingly instantly dismissing, forgetting or ignoring the many, many instances where the psychic was completely wrong.

I imagine that similar occurs when people asses their own abilities.

Nobody has anything to gain from it here.

They do, they have their belief system which requires shoring up by other people. Those with hard-to-evidence beliefs often experience differing viewpoints as personal attacks, as seen on this thread. It also happens a lot in the religion board, in any discussion about transgenderism, and in those crazy American disputes with trump aficionados. Going back in time, the Church routinely killed people for querying its doctrine, as some branches of Islam do today.

And, with all due deference, there is something of the "I'm special" about it. As an analogy, I write. On a good day my text will write itself, as the saying goes. The experience matches accounts of divine inspiration (or any other kind of inspiration); it genuinely feels like somebody else is writing through me. While it's far from rare to have this kind of imagination - because that's what it is - I consider myself to be lucky and, yes, it is something I think is 'special'.

The difference is that people with creative inspiration have a document, an artwork, a movie, a song to show at the end of it. It seems extremely rare for people with the gift of foresight to create time-stamped evidence of their premonitions, which could be checked against subsequent events. Then they wouldn't need to defend their powers so ferociously!

I can see what you’re getting at. I haven’t commented specifically about the Bold Street phenomena as I don’t know enough about it. However, applying a solipsistic philosophy to a situation like that would be I can’t be sure anything exists outside of me so I could have created a city, Liverpool, a Street Bold street, a story, the time slip all the characters etc. but it would still be real because that is what reality is. We would even have constructed the idea of cities and streets.

this would be the extreme. It would be possible to see a part way position where some people can create a subjective reality that might or might not be shared by others within what is otherwise an objective reality.

or maybe it is an objective reality but many (and increasing numbers) can't see it for whatever reason.

it’s fascinating when we star to consider how much of what we perceive as reality is actually constructed in our minds and therefore how much we can alter

I’m rude to you, when you said the following to me, completely unprovoked??!

It's just not that complex, and you're not that special. Because lets face it, that's the root issue here: I see ghosts, I'm so special. I predict deaths, I'm so special. I have mad coincdences, I'm so special.

No, we all have untrustworthy senses, weird brains, and see things that aren't there, miss things that are, and make connections and explanations that aren't true. You don't see dead people, and you're not at all special.

Ok then! I always find it odd when I enter a thread, make a point that is in no way personal or directed to anyone in particular, and then some poster starts aggressively quoting me and acting outraged when I dare to respond in kind!

Go to bed. When you're in a hole best to stop digging.

@Againstmachine What? 🤣 I don't think anybody would ever call me a pearl clutcher, but ok.
If you think we're all batshit for believing what we've experienced then move along.
I hope if you ever walk past a gypsy booth, when she's sat in there with her crystal ball. That you shout out loud that she's a batshit, con artist. Rage against it in real life too! Go for it. Call it out for all the 'sensible people' 😆 I'd agree with you, but I wouldn't say it. I'd just stand there clutching my pearls.

Ah another who lets any old shit go but is a pearl clutcher.

Let all these bullshitters spout there shit but call out the sensible people.

@Againstmachine I found your posts a bit aggressive (I haven't reported you!) You seemed to go off on a tangent about charlatans taking money from people by deception, when nobody on here has suggested anything of the sort. If anything it's been a chance for people to talk about something that they experience freely, without embarrassment, because we know we'd be mocked for talking about it in person.
I know I experience these things, but I equally can't stand the ones who profit from it and don't believe them myself half the time. I dont see how they can predict things at will or read people. So that to me, is as bonkers as me saying I just get random premonitions pop into my head, to you. But just because I can't do that, so I have doubts, it doesn't mean I would insult somebody talking about it on here. Nobody has anything to gain from it here.
Plus I couldn't stand Derek Acorah or any of the other TV mystics! Mumsnet posters don't compare.