Disgusting hospital

I've seen lack of hygiene. Filthy loos, lifts, wards, I'm talking bodily functions and blood in all three. Cleaners are blamed because they're outside contractors. No-one on the wards gets involved because it's not their job to clean up. Don't know what the solution is.

I’ve had and heard horror stories stretching back to the 1980s when lazy and incompetent doctors and nurses left me at death’s door as a teenager. I don’t think it’s changed. I think the problem is that there’s no consistent discipline or care and there are many very hostile people working in hospitals. I kind of understand why they’d become like this but it doesn’t excuse the awful behaviour. Just recently my mum was in emergency care and the No-shit-given attitude was miserable. Two male nurses had an aggressive argument at the foot of her bed, same male nurse lunged towards me aggressively when I accidentally interrupted him as he was inputting something onto the computer. I was being very careful and polite bc I am anyway and also dm and I were both a bit frightened of how things would be after I left. But at least we can get some care and meds without going bankrupt, I just wish they wouldn’t promote willy-waggers over competent people.

Sorry but private healthcare isn't the panacea some make it out to be. Examples from my husband's stay in a private hospital close to where we live:

(a) no drip stand, so his post-op. drip was left trailing on the floor at the side of his bed. When I queried why with the nurse her reply was "there isn't a stand available" - to which my reply was "well, go and find one"

(b) one of his pillows removed from another patient's use as a 'temporary measure' because they 'couldn't find one' . Eh? Private hospital?

(c) inside of small wardrobe cupboard in his room was filthy, the shelves obviously hadn't been dusted or cleaned for yonks.

My husband's medical insurance was paid for by his company, but we told the company that if they wanted to dispute the final bill, we had evidence of what had occurred. We said that had we been paying ourselves, we would totally have refused to pay the bill ("OK, see you in court - and hope you enjoy the publicity"). Don't get me wrong, we would happily have paid for the consultant's work and that of the anaesthetist, who were first-class, but nursing care? A joke - all you heard them talk about was ordering a takeaway and how many extra shifts they were going to do and the money they would make. I could give other examples, too.

Chronic underfunding is not why some nurses are evil or borderline evil.

Hopefully you don't have a pre-existing condition, ever need emergency care or get one of the chronic conditions health insurance doesn't cover.

With respect, there's no saying the NHS will 'cover' those things. Not effectively, anyway.

In my case, it was an emergency. I could have died if my 'care' had been left to the NHS. A private hospital saved my life.

Similarly, my husband had a pioneering surgery that wasn't available on the NHS.

So, you were saying...

I believe when the last Labour government handed it over to the Tories satisfaction with the NHS was at an all time high (although people remembered how it had been run down under the Tories before them so that might not say much). I believe it was also widely regarded by the WHO and other such organisation who measure these things as the best, most efficient and cost effective health service in the world. I think it still rates very highly on value for money with these international comparators.

Sounds like Treliske in Cornwall!

I used to work as a carer for adults with learning difficulties, some non-verbal. If a client had to go into hospital we went with them and took our own gloves, anti-bac wipes, hand wipes, disinfectant spray. Our manager insisted we wipe down the bed frame, mattress (strip and remake the bed), the bedside cabinet ( inside and out) and the floor around the bed if necessary on arrival and several times daily ( not the mattress) On return home we washed the clients clothes twice, the first wash with half a bottle of Dettol added. Any overnight bag they’d used was left outside and sprayed with disinfectant. This was in the days of MRSA and the manager was paranoid one of the clients would catch it. Some of the hospitals were ok but one was so disgusting ( large bathroom with bedpans containing excrement piled up on the floor) I couldn’t let the client use it. Staff generally were never great with people with LD, not even basic Makaton signing and often said they didn’t know how to look after “patients like that” 🙄
This was in the days of Blair’s government.

So many varying experiences. I was taken by ambulance to hospital last month and stayed in for five days. The nurses and auxiliary staff were lovely, kind, patient, and the ward lights went out at 10.00pm and I didn't hear a sound from the nurses' station which was just near the door to my ward (four bed ward) during the night. I had to press my buzzer several times in the night for help going to the loo as I was on a drip, and they came in so softly and patiently. The food was actually edible, better than I expected. Clean sheets and pillow cases every morning. So although this is just one person's experience, I would like to point out that not all NHS hospitals are as horrible as the OP suffered.

Spot on!
Cleaning/ catering was always an entry level job for many from the EU.
However the Senior Sister is responsible for the cleanliness on their ward.
Surprised to hear about the issues.
It's spotless where I work, everything cleaned daily, disposable curtains, commodes tagged Rooms sealed and fogged after an Infectious patient.
However as with all these threads it's the fault of those filthy, gossiping, lazy nurses.
Never mind you will all get what you voted for shortly.
Hope you have plenty of money !

I’m not sure that would help tbh. Most midwives don’t go on to work in the postnatal ward, so asking them to do an extra degree is a bit harsh. But the NHS should definitely be picking up on all these complaints (i also had shocking care after my CS) and be using to provide further training, especially in postnatal ward where many of the complaints come from

Hopefully you don't have a pre-existing condition, ever need emergency care or get one of the chronic conditions health insurance doesn't cover.

The NHS can't always be avoided - which is why it is in everone's interest to make sure it is well funded, effective and treats its patients well.

The problem with complaining at the time, @LemonPeonies, is that as a relative or patient you are terrified of alienating staff and making things worse.

When my dad was admitted, a nurse made a horrible comment about him being an alcoholic. She said he wouldn't be needing any water as his tastes lay elsewhere. I objected to it as it was just so unprofessional and wrong. I then worried so much that he would get less good care because I had stood up for him, that I went and bought her some flowers and apologised to her. Even though I had done nothing wrong. Absolutely ridiculous but you are desperate not to trigger worse care.

Is that someone who is caring but just overworked, @hollylou?

(I feel like I need to add that dad was in no way disruptive or difficult.)

Getting private health insurance is exactly what the government want you to do. Just remember though, the reason private health insurance is so cheap is because we have the NHS. Insurers won't insure anyone who's likely to need treatment. My FIL had private health insurance his whole fit and healthy life. As soon as he got old and started needing a bit of healthcare, nobody would insure him anymore. I have private health care through work, it's shit. I once tried to claim for an expensive operation, they first made me jump through multiple hoops while they tried to search for any possible way they could get out of paying for it.

The NHS has been chronically underfunded and largely understaffed for many, many years. Many managers that have little to no clue what it's like to work in the departments they run and therefore run them inefficiently.
Staff morale is almost always low so you've done well to see / hear laughing nurses. Staff turnover is high these days with lots of agency cover too.

Sorry you had such a terrible experience though. Contact PALS to feedback but honestly nothing will change sadly.

And for you, @explainthistomeplease

It's just appalling. My dad was at a community hospital where he would definitely have been left to rot if we hadn't been able to go in every day. I'm so sorry you and your mum were failed.

I am so sorry, @honeyandfizz . That is heartbreaking

Very good advice. Trouble is when this happens it's usually when you're at your lowest ebb and focussed on surviving. Two years on from my mother's appalling care at a community hospital I still wonder about making a complaint. But mum died - in part due to the fact she appeared to have been forgotten in the corner of a ward - and the trauma of that is still very much with me. we weren't allowed in except for one person once a week because of Covid. yeah right. They just didn't want us on their case.
It was barbaric. No one encouraged her to eat and drink let alone get stronger through physio. And the worst behaviour was from the ward sister who seemed to hold all the power and delight in saying 'no'.
The whole family was traumatised by what happened. I still weep for mum - at her lowest ebb she was forgotten.

...the staff are fundamentally kind, its not the kind of job you can do if you don't care.

You cannot truly believe that this applies to all HCP, @hollylou?

I hope you are reading the whole thread, including the comments by fellow nurses.

I have witnessed absolutely awful behaviour by some nurses towards patients. I am sure staff/funding shortages exacerbate this, but there are people working in clinical roles in the NHS who are fundamentally unsuited to patient care. Denying or ignoring this is not the answer.

🙄

Agree with everyone about massive differences between hospitals and even between wards within the same hospital. There are some brilliant nurses and some diabolical ones. Unfortunately, the vulnerability of patients can bring out both empathy and bullying depending on management, ward culture and individual personalities.

Everone with a bad experience: complain, complain, complain - PALS, Hospital Trust, Nursing and Midwifery Council, local paper, social media....

Everyone with a good experience: write a thank you letter, it will be appreciated.

More NHS (and Social Care) money and openess to immigration will help staffing levels. That should determine how you vote. Be prepared to pay the tax it will take if you are a high/middle income earner.

Agree with avoiding hospitals if you can (and get out as fast as you can).

Op- I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I wish you all the best with your recovery.

Sadly my Dad died in April this year at the hands of the NHS. His care was neglectful and he died as a result of missed opportunities to save him. I have taken it to PALS as an official complaint and it has now become a Significant Incident and is being investigated by the patient safety team. I am a nurse of over 25 years experience and I have been traumatised by what my Dad and my family have been through. Luckily I know the questions to ask and I will make damn well sure those responsible for his death will answer my every question. One of the worst things for me strangely (out of all the horrific things that happened to him) is that he wanted to have his bowels open and he asked for 3 days, despite being very confused due to sepsis and died without having been to the toilet - this to me is the basics of care and it was woefully lacking. I feel so let down by the organisation I have worked for for so long.

I had a traumatic experience in 2020 (on the ward, in labour they were excellent and saved mine and my daughter's lives).

Experience at a different hospital in 2023 on labour/post natal ward - brilliant. Absolutely wonderful care. And when my son had meningitis at 4 weeks old, they were exemplary. I also had HG so ended up in A&E a couple of times for fluids - always treated with kindness.

Both NHS. IME it depends why you're there. I've seen a lot of time wasters, and medical staff can't help but get compassion fatigue.

I know this will be an unpopular view but personally I think midwives now being direct entry and not requiring a nursing qualification prior to training was a big mistake. Postnatal wards are still largely staffed by midwives of which post op care is only a small part of their training. They work far more autonomously from an early stage of their career than nurses, with lots of the ethos focusing on pregnant women not being poorly and holistic care which whilst I agree with broadly, sometimes things are overlooked or downplayed though a CS is a major operation and any birth carries risks that might not present until the hours or days after birth. This isn't a slight to them, they work hard and are invariably decent at what they do, but whew sadly your story of the obvious being missed isnt wildly uncommon. What would be treated very very seriously on any other recovery ward (not saying mistakes aren't made or that they're perfect) for women it's brushed under the carpet often as an oopsie.

of course a chief nurse would say. after lucy letby, you can see why.
you can go through PALS. i would make a complaint about everything you saw. you never know, you may be saving the competent nurse from work place bullying. the fact that they were open and allowed you to see it just shows how gross some of these cliquey nurses are. everyone knows what we're talking about when we say cliquey nurses too.