To not sign friends petition about school fees ?

'Told on yourself' means 'revealed what you really think'.

Regardless of which school your children attend, what I meant was - it shows that you don't believe the private school shares the facilities because they actually want to share their wealth and privilege with those less fortunate, but only because they have to do it as a condition of the great financial benefit they themselves receive.

It's not really 'charitable' if someone only do it because it benefits them, is it?

You obviously don’t have to send it around or sign it, but I’m incredibly worried about the prospect of VAT on school fees. And my children are in state school and always will be, barring a lottery win.

But we live in an area where a large proportion - much higher than average - of kids are privately educated, and even so, the state schools are full to bursting. It’ll be a disaster, but not for the kids who are currently in private school - their parents will buy nice houses near the good state schools. It’s the rest of them who’ll get places at failing schools two towns away.

I agree you've already explained.

I would say I've seen the arguments for and against this change and my view is that I agree with it, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

I'm not really sure what 'told on myself' means...

To be clear - my 3 children go to state school (actually 3 different state schools, due to differing needs) All three state schools benefit from the facilities that belong to the local private schools, hence my concern.

It's a shame that the leading independent school that you attended didn't share the amazing facilities that you enjoyed.

@fearfuloffluff I have seen both examples near to me when local private schools have closed. Some will of course enter the state sector. Once they are businesses though, they can do what they want with their assets.

@BlurredEdges I am sure they will donate to their new school, just like they do at their current private school who also have PTAs etc. You have a very sad picture of private school parents. I've met alot of private school pupils and parents through my work and I can assure you most of them are lovely kind people, just like at state school.

@Hooplahooping I couldn't agree more. Reform of the definition of charitable status would be my preferred way of dealing with the issue. This would mean those making vast amounts of money would have to give more to the local community than the school just breaking even.

This

This is perfect

I send my children to private schools - and I think she’s being a prat.

(If anyone really pressed me on the matter - I think there probably ought to be a separate tax designation for private education establishments + they should have to earn the right to any sort of tax break by demonstrating genuine social contribution)

its EXTREMELY crass to send a petition to people who have, whether for financial or social reasons, made different educational choices - and expect them to justify why they won’t enthusiastically support a tax break for your choice…

lots of good response ideas from PPs here.

but she sounds like a terrible advert for private education…

Many smaller private schools also have facilities that are used by the surrounding state schools - pools, stages, sports facilities etc. - if they lose their charitable status then why would they continue to offer this to the local state school?

wow. You really told on yourself there!

(incidentally, I went to a leading independent school on a scholarship for 5 years. In those 5 years,the number of times that local state schools used our amazing facilities was... zero.)

Perhaps all those parents no longer paying thousands in fees could donate some money that they save to the state schools.

As many state school parents already do, regularly. (You wouldn't know this. )

But I guess they wouldn't want to do that, as it would benefit everyone's children and not just their own.

I don't mean all schools, but surely there would be some. They're not all in stately homes etc

I’ll never forget when the private school next to my uni was closing down. The parents stood outside in their gilets shaking buckets asking ordinary punters to save the school that no ordinary punter could afford to attend in a million years. Their lack of insight astounded me at the time but it doesn’t seem that much has changed. Private schools are not a choice for the majority of us as no amount of scrimping would result in us having enough money for it. Our local private school just drains our town of well brought up academic kids (if the entrance exam is to be believed) which messes up the socioeconomic dynamic of the state high school. Despite that, our eldest DD is thriving and her siblings can’t wait to join her at the local state school.

“Because they do very little charitable activity and are all about making money. Considering 7% of children go to private school then the tax would be a huge boost for the economy”

@fearfuloffluff if a school that has lost it's charitable status and has therefore become a business closes, why would it go back into the state sector as a school? If the land is cheap and the council can afford to buy then that's a possibility. If it's a school with prime real estate then it will go to the highest bidder and will be sold for profit.

You've already told her though, haven't you?

"Private schools are businesses not charities so I agree with the proposed change."

I don't think you need to say any more than that.

Apols for typos, can't edit on phone...hopefully you get the idea of what I was trying to say!

Meh. You could bring the closing private schools into the state sector. Recruit the teachers too.

You could taper it in so it only applies to new pupils in private schools. It is beyond ludicrous that schools that work against equality have charitable status.

I think it is you that's being naive. Loosing charitable status and adding VAT will change the way private schools work. They will become true businesses with all the intended and unintended consequences that will bring. It will also need to be applied to all forms of tutoring to be fair. Probably best, to stay out of it altogether with your friend if you want to keep them rather than entering a debate with no right answer, just differing opinions.

As others have said, you've given your reasons, you don't need to say any more!

One thing that I do find slightly odd, is the frequent comment about state school parents using tutors to boost their kids up, being comparable to public school. My DS has a tutor as he finds academic work difficult. The tutor comes weekly and we pay £25 per hour.
We live in a relatively affluent area, but school my son is on a class of over 30 children, some of whom have complex SEN and all of whom are of varying abilities. They have one teacher and a couple of part time TAs. I don't think that setting plus a tutor for an hour a week in any way offers the same level of support as a child gets in a private school environment!

If the private schools lose their charitable status it will have a massive negative impact on state schools as the very many parents who are then priced out move over, meaning a huge increase in class sizes and resources stretched beyond tolerance.

With the reduction in private pupils there won’t even be a fraction of the money available from the change to fund the additional state needs.

the people most impacted by this are state parents.

What was she thinking of sending it to you to sign. That's ridiculous, considering you send your children to state schools.

I would ignore it. If she asks you why - I would just say - my kids are in state schools, it doesn't impact me - so not getting involved.

Do you think they'd sign a petition for State schools if it was the other way around.

Experience has taught me - no one cares unless they're directly impacted. This goes for most things in life.

Who are they planning to send the petition to?

You’ve declined. No further explanation necessary (ours were at times privately educated. I wouldn’t have asked for your support on the issue if I had no idea whether you were the least interested.)

They've been talking about this since I was at school 20 years ago ("give generously to the bake sale for Ethiopian orphans, girls, or we will lose our charity status and your parents will have to pay an extra 17.5% in VAT on your fees".

I'm not exaggerating when I say that's what we were told by teachers.

Anyway, people have been on about this proposal for decades. I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm surprised that people seem to think that if their kids go to state school then they would unaffected by these proposed changes. It's the state kids that stand to lose the most. The big, fancy private schools are not the ones that would be impacted by changes like this, it's the smaller private schools that are part of most communities. If these schools become unaffordable then where will the kids go? Back into state education, putting even more pressure on school places and increasing class sizes. Many smaller private schools also have facilities that are used by the surrounding state schools - pools, stages, sports facilities etc. - if they lose their charitable status then why would they continue to offer this to the local state school?