Page 4 | To think the National Trust should not let Park Run volunteers marshal the cars at a NT property

ParkRunIdiots · 2023-09-23T17:50:13+00:00

So rocked up a very large NT property with lots of parkland at about 9:25 today. had gone through the payment control bit, then you drive for about another mile (no joke) to the car park. Just before the car park all traffic stopped in a traffic jam caused by two Park Run people in pink vests who would not let any cars through. So I sat there and say there and sat there, not a single car moved through. I could see the runners approaching from the right, at times there were gaps in the runners but still no car was allowed through. After ten minutes still no car had been allowed to pass. Several cars behind me did a 20 point turn and left. Then I realised that the runners weren’t even crossing the road as I’d originally assumed, they turned right and ran alongside the road edge, which has a massive Green verge they could run on . So in my mind no need to stop any car. Or if some risk assessment has deemed it too dangerous to have the cars beside the runners then it means there’s no access to the car park for about 45 mins, in which case the NT property needs to open later! the runners were all strung out, no big wide bunch/crowd, so single file or in pairs. anyway I honked at this point. One pink vest guy had obviously been waiting for this moment and charged up, ran past me and bollocked the car behind me who was mid 20 point turn and leaving. That driver grassed me up so the park run guy came and condescendingly told me “when there’s a gap” we will let a car through. I said it was ridiculous, that there had been plenty of gaps, nobody had been allowed through and the runners weren’t even on the road! At which point he told me if I didn’t like it I could leave! then the other marshal let some of us through, even though there were still runners running alongside the verge the same as there had been for the last ten minutes! I think they were letting cars through in groups of 5 or 6 as some had gone through just before I got stopped. Again when there were runners there! So nothing to do with gaps! diagram for an idea. I do feel like emailing the NT and telling them they need to have an NT person there overseeing it, and preventing the Parkrun people been rude to other users. I may be slightly anti park run after my (on lead, walking to heel) dog was trampled on and tripped over by several park runners on the inaugural run of my local new park run on a narrow public bridleway and they shouted at me for been there with a dog (even though I’d stepped into the mud at the side). Still not forgiven them for that.

LighthouseTheme · 25/09/2023 23:21

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 23:12

It’s one hour a week. It’s advertised and signposted. I have no clue why one marshal with a bit of a jobsworth attitude making some people in cars wait a bit - like that’s the worst fate imaginable - means that now according to this thread hundreds of parkrunners are now a danger to society.
They’re just people jogging, not a herd of charging buffalo.

The first finisher was 17 minutes at Clumber this week. I bet he wasn't jogging!

I would think that only those interesting in taking part would want to look out for advertising for Parkruns. Casual/general visitors to Clumber should not have to check what they need to avoid (large and one-off events notwithstanding).

But also, see my above post about marshals not really having the remit to direct general users of the park; that is why there are bright yellow signs.

LighthouseTheme · 25/09/2023 23:17

I have spoken to my Parkrunning friend, and he has confirmed to me that the route does not (usually) bring the runners (etc) into contact with cars that may be attempting to get to the main car park (near the Chapel). The PR Parking is in the field/overspill car park, and any disabled parking for the PR is close to the Bark café. There is no reason for the main route to be blocked off, people prevented from using it, or any kind of direction to the general public and users of the park by the PR marshals. The main car park should be as available as it always is.
The route goes along a wide track through woodland and down to what is known as the Lake Arm - where they may well meet walkers, cyclists etc - and that is when there might congestion or an issue with dogs maybe.

But in his experience, the parking differentiation is very clear.

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 23:12

It’s one hour a week. It’s advertised and signposted. I have no clue why one marshal with a bit of a jobsworth attitude making some people in cars wait a bit - like that’s the worst fate imaginable - means that now according to this thread hundreds of parkrunners are now a danger to society.
They’re just people jogging, not a herd of charging buffalo.

DonnaBanana · 25/09/2023 23:10

Well I just wish that the appetite for organising things extended to other places where there are huge crowds. Try Bluewater a few weeks before Xmas and pretty much anyone who turns up gets to barge around the place with little organisation in sight. Yet have a hundred people running in an open park and it's all organised with military precision.

TheGhostofLoganRoy · 25/09/2023 23:03

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 21:56

Yes I know I was being sarcastic I obviously don’t think you can hop in your car and run them over. But you can step onto the grass and avoid them, walkers can simply walk to the side or step aside and wait. Runners will be gone in a minute they’re literally running past not standing around causing an obstruction. A few minutes after that photo was taken that path would be practically clear again.

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Some of these organised runs can draw hundreds or thousands of people (I googled, and the largest ParkRun draws around 2500 people), who all run at different speeds and often quite drawn out. When you have that mass of people, it certainly takes more than a minute or two to let the entire crowd pass, and if it's an area with poor visibility it can be really scary trying to walk without knowing if crowd are about to run around the corner at top speed.

Really, would you be okay with your 92yr old granny who can't see very well, very wobbly on her feet and finds it painful to stand still for long, to have to stand on a slippery grass verge in the rain for 15 minutes while she waited for a couple of thousand people to run by? Frightened that she's going to get knocked or shouldered out of the way?

Am not anti ParkRun, but any kind of run needs to be organised so there's a specific route clear for the runners that the public can easily avoid via having alternate routes signposted.

Passepartoute · 25/09/2023 22:54

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 21:56

Yes I know I was being sarcastic I obviously don’t think you can hop in your car and run them over. But you can step onto the grass and avoid them, walkers can simply walk to the side or step aside and wait. Runners will be gone in a minute they’re literally running past not standing around causing an obstruction. A few minutes after that photo was taken that path would be practically clear again.

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Why can't the runners run to the side or step aside and wait? What do they do if the person walking towards them is pushing a buggy or a wheelchair, or using crutches or a walking stick? How do they know that the person isn't unsteady on their feet and dependent on being able to walk on a reasonably smooth surface?

How quickly do, say, 400 runners move past any given point?

Passepartoute · 25/09/2023 22:46

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 19:15

Obstruct how? Runners are typically not stationary.

I don’t believe that at all - parkrun always states that runners don’t have sole use of the area and must be courteous to other users. They don’t block areas for other pedestrians or walkers in a public space.

Anyway it’s all irrelevant … The OP wasn’t going to work nor were they a pedestrian. They wanted to drive through an organised run. Try that during the London marathon see how well it goes. Plenty of people need to go to work that day too I’m sure but are able to make allowances for an organised event.

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That's a particularly daft comparison. The London marathon is very well publicised and roads are fully and officially closed, and it only happens once a year. ParkRuns wouldn't be allowed if they were causing that sort of disruption every week. Instead, they wisely make quite a big thing of saying that they must be run considerately without disrupting traffic, pedestrians and other users of the venues in question.

IME most ParkRuns are quite sensibly organised to comply with those requirements, which makes it all the more puzzling that people are seeking to defend one that wasn't. Do you really want to condone something that could bring the whole activity into disrepute?

Passepartoute · 25/09/2023 22:37

TigerRag · 25/09/2023 19:08

Is the park really that small you can't park in another car park and enter through another entrance away from parkrunners?

I've never been to a parkrun (juniors and Saturdays) where the park is that small

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I've certainly visited a Parkrun site where the park is that small. However, the people organising the run have the sense to route it well away from the roads through the park.

Passepartoute · 25/09/2023 22:35

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 19:07

Ok so now you know for next time.
The NT site doesn’t have it on their website at all?
Most people work weekdays and relax on Saturdays you’re not special. It’s baffling that you’re cross you had to wait to access a car park rather than drive your car through pedestrians crossing a road. During your leisure time.

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It really is no answer that one person knows for next time. There were obviously a number of people in that queue who didn't know, and in fact with National Trust properties that will be the norm - most people visit on a one-off basis and have no particular reason to think that park runs will take place there, let alone that on a large site with a wide choice of places to run, Parkruns will be organised in a place where they will obstruct visitors to the property.

Passepartoute · 25/09/2023 22:27

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 18:17

Sorry but…Isn’t it kind of obvious that there will be lots of runners and people at a parkrun site at 8.30-9,30ish?? Surely you can just go there around that time. This is like trying to park outside a school at 8.45 and complaining about all the parents in the way 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well, no. Apart from speculating that they might use our local parks, I have no clue where ParkRun operates, let alone when. If I am visiting a National Trust property, why would I assume that would be a ParkRun site?

MasterBeth · 25/09/2023 22:21

You'd think park run was fucking Live Aid if you read some of the posts on this thread.

Original poster

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 22:13

Alstroemeria123 · 25/09/2023 22:08

Some of the parkrun advocates on this thread are kind of proving the OP’s point about attitude.

Totally. Sadly they’re so blinded to the cause they’re never going to be reasonable. If anyone else was acting like this apart from the group/activity they enjoy they’d be horrified.

I’ve got nothing against park run if it was better managed and not so inconsiderate of others. I totally get that it’s a worthwhile organisation which helps many improve their fitness and mental health. Just a shame that they are so self absorbed they think they have the right to tell others to not turn up at places on a Saturday morning, or to walk in the rough grass even when that poster has repeatedly said they struggle with mobility. 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:

Original poster

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 22:09

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 22:02

Not at all what I said I was commenting because your photo examples of an obstructed path literally had meters of grass to the side and was a pretty rubbish example of the runners being unavoidable.

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The second photo has no such meters of grass to the side.

The other photo while it does have grass to the side is a private farmers field, not the public footpath/bridleway which is only the tarmac path. So yes, they are literally blocking the path. And not everyone can walk on rough grass, I struggle some weeks due to my mobility issues.

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Alstroemeria123 · 25/09/2023 22:08

Some of the parkrun advocates on this thread are kind of proving the OP’s point about attitude.

Original poster

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 22:06

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 22:01

Obviously that’s terrible etiquette and they should not have been barging into you.

However that experience doesn’t have anything to do with your original post except for the fact that on two completely separate occasions you’ve been annoyed by runners. Yes the runners who ran into you were wrong to do so. But that doesn’t mean you should be allowed to drive your car on a path with people actively running on it during a parkrun event at a NT site which your post was actually about. You were still unreasonable in that instance.

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I’ve never said I wanted to drive my car on a path with runners. That would be very silly.

For a start there were no runners on the road. There were a sporadic strung out handful of walkers on the verge. Nobody was on the road regardless of what the gaslighting run director wants to say, the verge was wider than the road. There were gaps between the walkers on the verge where you could have slotted a bus inbetween them but still the marshals didn’t let anyone through.

If they’re really so risk averse that they don’t want a car going along the road beside the runners/walkers even though the cars would be about 8ft away from anyone they either need to play nicely and take it in turns. Or plot a different route avoiding that stretch of road. Or block the road off and direct people to the other secret car park. And not be talk to people so rudely.

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Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 22:02

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 21:59

So it’s ok for people to run into me and my dog if it’s only for a few minutes? Ok, fine. How silly of me to have an issue with that.

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Not at all what I said I was commenting because your photo examples of an obstructed path literally had meters of grass to the side and was a pretty rubbish example of the runners being unavoidable.

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 22:01

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 21:57

And as I said in my post when talking about the time I was with the dog I did step off the path and was on the grass. But faster runners were also running off the path to try and weave past slower runners. I literally had nowhere else to go as there was a massive bramble hedge. I’d no problem actually with walking on the grass, even if it was long grass, my feet were getting wet and the ground was really rough (I’m mobility impaired). But I was still get banged into.

Obviously that’s terrible etiquette and they should not have been barging into you.

However that experience doesn’t have anything to do with your original post except for the fact that on two completely separate occasions you’ve been annoyed by runners. Yes the runners who ran into you were wrong to do so. But that doesn’t mean you should be allowed to drive your car on a path with people actively running on it during a parkrun event at a NT site which your post was actually about. You were still unreasonable in that instance.

Original poster

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 21:59

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 21:56

Yes I know I was being sarcastic I obviously don’t think you can hop in your car and run them over. But you can step onto the grass and avoid them, walkers can simply walk to the side or step aside and wait. Runners will be gone in a minute they’re literally running past not standing around causing an obstruction. A few minutes after that photo was taken that path would be practically clear again.

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So it’s ok for people to run into me and my dog if it’s only for a few minutes? Ok, fine. How silly of me to have an issue with that.

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Original poster

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 21:57

And as I said in my post when talking about the time I was with the dog I did step off the path and was on the grass. But faster runners were also running off the path to try and weave past slower runners. I literally had nowhere else to go as there was a massive bramble hedge. I’d no problem actually with walking on the grass, even if it was long grass, my feet were getting wet and the ground was really rough (I’m mobility impaired). But I was still get banged into.

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Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 21:56

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 21:53

I said walkers. It’s a bit difficult when you’re already on a narrow footpath and a crowd of people like in those photos come charging towards you. Can’t get in a car at all when you’re a mile down a narrow footpath.

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Yes I know I was being sarcastic I obviously don’t think you can hop in your car and run them over. But you can step onto the grass and avoid them, walkers can simply walk to the side or step aside and wait. Runners will be gone in a minute they’re literally running past not standing around causing an obstruction. A few minutes after that photo was taken that path would be practically clear again.

Original poster

ParkRunIdiots · 25/09/2023 21:53

Thementalloadisreal · 25/09/2023 21:16

Oh no, you might have to wait a minute or walk on some grass! How terrifying. Quick get in your car and run them all down. You’ve paid £70 annually for the right to drive over runner’s toes after all.

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I said walkers. It’s a bit difficult when you’re already on a narrow footpath and a crowd of people like in those photos come charging towards you. Can’t get in a car at all when you’re a mile down a narrow footpath.

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/09/2023 21:33

DewinDwl · 25/09/2023 21:02

Those photos 😳

They are very obviously blocking the path and making it unusable for anyone else.

But not only that - how can they even run in that crowd? I know I wouldn't be able to without tripping up or bumping into other runners. The path is too narrow for the volume of people, so that any obstacle on the path however small can become a serious hazard. They either need a different "venue" or to limit the number of runners. It just doesn't look safe.

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People frequently run in a crowd and manage not to fall over. Haven't you ever seen the start of the London Marathon? I've been to maybe half a dozen different parkruns and in all cases there are a lot of people bunched up at the start for a couple of minutes and then the slower people like me fall behind and the faster people strike out far ahead and there is no difficulty at all for other people to get past. Obviously every course is different, and there are hundreds of them across the UK, each with its own challenges.

MaggieFS · 25/09/2023 21:28

*doesn't

MaggieFS · 25/09/2023 21:27

Being a volunteer does t excuse the attitude.

TheGhostofLoganRoy · 25/09/2023 21:26

MasterBeth · 25/09/2023 19:44

This post is ridiculous and ill-informed.

Yogi Bear doesn't work at Jellystone Park, he lives there.

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I'm not sure stealing picanic baskets is technically work.

Does he have an employment contract? What's his annual leave allowance?

Anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that everyone in the UK has heard of ParkRun and knows the exact day and time that it meets. I didn't know any of this stuff until this thread. And Park Run might be on a weekend morning but there are other runs that affect commuters more, and it just doesn't seem like the culture of competitive running is one of tremendous awareness and concern for not negatively impacting others, which is a shame because clearly it's very healthy and does a lot of good for those taking part.