To think having XL bullies around children is child neglect?

I'd argue that encouraging people, any people, to view such a horrific video, even in the face of surviving family members asking people not to do so, is far more sickening than owning any type of dog.

Please, for the love of all things good and holy, do not look up that video, for any reason. The people who recorded and uploaded it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, imo.

Sorry, but what on earth is possessing people to look up a video of a man being killed?

Why do you love cocker spaniels or west highland terriers?

Everyone enjoys certain breeds for various reasons.

For me personally I think a lot of them are very cute.
And the ones I’ve worked with have got gorgeous personalities.

One of my favourite breeds of dog is the American bulldog because their temperament/personality is just amazing. They’re also gorgeous to look at and so I naturally like the XL bullies as they’re similar.

I also love Great Danes and Dalmatian’s.

I guess I like the aesthetic of the shape of them (trying not to offend anyone) but they’re what I call proper dogs. Like if a child was to draw a dog it would be that shape and size. Like a scooby doo.

What are your views on other dog breeds that kill, you didn’t say?

The XL bullies have killed, but they’re only responsible for half of the deaths, so surely just banning this one breed is not actually going to get to the route of the problem.

These days that is even truer, as people think they can get all their dog training and handling information from TV shows or TikTok - and for the last three years or so, the 'wealth' of horrific abusive training methods displayed on Tiktok and similar has sky-rocketed

@WiddlinDiddlin I agree. Ceaser Milan, and more recently, South End Dog Training, has a lot to answer for.

I also agree re lockdown. It hampered my training with my current dog. I don't have a toddler or have any in my immediate family. My previous way of socialising would have been to sit outside local parks and reward calm behaviour in the presence of small children but without parks being open I was stuck. We've done a lot of work since lockdown ended but I dread to think how people less dog-savvy coped with training/socialisation/lockdown.

I no longer work with dogs professionally. I made the mistake of starting my career in rescue work and sadly the people put me off for life but I imagine your job is 100 million times more difficult now than pre-lockdown.

What about other dog breeds though?
I’m not talking about chihuahuas, I’m talking about Rottweilers, huskies, terriers, collies etc.

A Dobermans bite force is as strong as a pit bull which is a banned breed.

There have been 6 deaths from dogs this year, 3 of which were XL bullies.

There were 10 deaths the year before, 3 of which were XL bullies and 2 may have been crossed with XL bullies.

I’m not saying that there isn’t an issue with these dogs but if you look at the statistics we have a big problem with more dogs than just XL bullies.

I can’t remember what they were but the statistics for dog numbers and recorded bites before the pandemic to now is quite shocking.

Many experts believe that as so many people got dogs during the lockdown but then didn’t train or socialise them properly and many were got rid of or left alone for hours when they went back to work, that it could account for the aggression we’re seeing from loads of dog breeds.

I love dogs.
I love XL bullies.
But we are becoming over run with dogs, especially ones that people cannot take care of.
We need stricter laws when it comes to who can own a dog and ensure that it’s taken care of properly.

The figures for how many of 'these dogs' (difficult in the first place as this covers a wide range of crossbreeds) are around are WAY out.

Stats for how many dogs, what breed etc, come from two main sources:

1/Kennel Club breed registrations - not applicable.
2/Insurance companies - highly unreliable when so so many will not be insured as individuals for vet bills (they may be covered as non-specific animals within a household under other policies).

They're also not new, they've been around a good 20 years, though the numbers have increased massively in the last few years, but then this follows the trend of dog ownership in general.

In the course of my work, I have had cause to report to SS on just one occasion - that is across almost 20 years of going into peoples homes, training classes and latterly, working remotely.

That case was not xl bullies. It was two akitas and a near pedigree type (tiny!) staffy.

Even then, it was the ignorance and risk taking of the owners that caused me to report rather than the breed of dog.

I've worked with xl bullies of all shapes, sizes and genetic origin - some I'd say were no more likely to attack than any other dog/breed, and some an absolute fucking liability and the difference was always the attitude and behaviour of the owner far more than the behaviour of the dog.

All of us who work with dogs responsibly, will contact SS if we're concerned about a situation. Unfortunately, the really scary people will be the least likely to contact a trainer/behaviourist in the first place.

These days that is even truer, as people think they can get all their dog training and handling information from TV shows or TikTok - and for the last three years or so, the 'wealth' of horrific abusive training methods displayed on Tiktok and similar has sky-rocketed.

It just isn't as simple as banning this, automatically assuming that, if life were that simple we'd all be living in Utopia... there'd be world peace, no poverty, no drug problems etc etc. It is complicated, because humans make it so!

A big part of the problem, imo, is the lack of public funding and the lack of policing.

E.g the two dogs who attacked Ian Price. The police did nothing when they were reported to be out of control in public on at least two separate occasions. The dog who killed Jack Lis had also been witnessed to be out of control in public, although it is not clear if this had been reported at the time. Nothing was done.

My sister's house was smashed up a few weeks ago. Initially, it was just her front window, so she came to me to vent/drink. I walked her home a few glasses of wine later with my large breed dog (she lived in an area notorious for drugs/assaults). When we reached her house all of her windows had been smashed and her house was trashed. I told her to phone 999 and wandered around the immediate area with my dog while she waited for the police. I did this because she didn't want my dog in her house due to her cats not being used to dogs and because he gets restless standing still on his lead.

Because I was walking with a large breed "dangerous" dog it wasn't long before I attracted the attention of the local dealers who assumed me and my dog were out for revenge on either themselves or one of their mates. I was cornered by a group of 6-8 lads. One of them told me he had an XL Bully and was going to go and get it and "set it" on me and my ridiculously friendly dog.

As soon as the police arrived at my sister's I felt safe enough to push my way through the lads. I reported the threats immediately, while the group of lads were still stood shouting threats and obscenities at us. The police did sweet FA. They didn't even speak to the lads. I asked them to follow us to my house a few blocks away to ensure the lads who were threatening us didn't follow us and they refused, stating that my dog could protect us. They didn't even check if the XL bully I was threatened with existed (I doubt it did).

If my dog had attacked anyone I would have been blamed. The police force in this country is a joke. As is the government. While we have these clowns in charge nothing is going to change with dogs, with crime, or with anything else.

So hard. Just traumatic

And yanbu op

I guess that depends on where you draw the line on ‘dangerous’ breeds. Some people thing Staffordshire terries are dangerous but some don’t etc. I do agree that all breeders and owners should be licensed and made to train, chipped etc. It might put the prices up but it might also stop lots of backstreet breeders or abandoned animals hopefully.

Oh FFS just STOP !!!

When are you going to grasp that even if they do successfully manage to ban the XL dogs that the idiots that use these large breeds for fighting etc will just pick another? Or they will just continue to use these dogs, it’s not like the police have the availability to chase every single report they get.

There are lots of other large dangerous breeds out there that can do just as much damage. Previously it was German shepherds etc who will it be next? If they aren’t willing to change the law and stop anyone able to breed dogs then they should just ban all dogs.

@ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor But why is it an either/or? Why not ban the most dangerous breeds and also have licensing rules for owners and breeders?

@StripeyMow Licensing dogs, with higher cost licenses for breeders, would go a long way to funding properly trained dog wardens.

I agree that these dogs can do a lot of damage in a very short space of time compared to some other breeds but the only ones I have witnessed in public have been very well trained and very well behaved, and like I said, all of the attacks in the news can be attributed to the owners, so I would not like to see a cull of these types until further research has been done but muzzling in public plus actually enforcing the existing law (the dogs who killed Ian, for example, had been witnessed to be dangerously out of control in public yet nothing had been done) would be a start and would go a long way to protect people in the interim.

As for them making up 1% of the dogs in the UK, we don't know this. This is a figure based on what vets are reporting. Do you think someone who allows their dogs to jump from a window really takes their dogs to a vet?

Licensing would give us a better idea of what types of dogs are in the and who owns them. Obviously, some people would try to flout the license laws but we could incentivize it, like other countries have done and hand out hefty fines to those who are caught without a license which would go further to funding dog wardens.

Sensible point. You’re right, more must be done to tackle these BYB. Because they will simply replace this one with another status dog. We need stricter rules on all dog ownership.

But muzzling in public isn’t enough. Attacks are happening in people’s homes, or in the most recent case didn’t the dogs jump through a window and attack a neighbour? Unfortunately, these dogs have by and large been bred for nefarious purposes. They have been bred to be big and aggressive. Yes, like many are saying, any dog can snap, but these mutant cross breeds can do a lot more damage than most. Another point. We don’t have the police resources to respond to all crimes, let alone police the management of certain dog breeds. They simply should not be kept in the community.

Regardless of the dog breed they can kill. You might feel safe with a chihuahua attacking your child instead of an XL but I would rather all dog breeders and owners were licensed properly and made to train and control their animals appropriately.

@ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor

See @StripeyMow 's post at 22.18

Says all I want to say. Speaks volumes. Speaks truth. About you, and @ItWillWash

I'm sorry but you're going to have to point to me to the post where I have explicitly defended this type of dog?

My point is, and always has been, that BSL does not work.

I said in my first post that this type has an usually large number of fatalities attributed to them and that this needs further research but going by what we read in the news all of these attacks can be attributed to human negligence. Banning this particular type of dog does nothing to resolve that. The people "dealing" in this type/breed are making tens of thousands a year from it (and they are dealing. The majority of UK breeders of XL bullies are former drug dealers). They are not just going to stop. They will brutalise another set of breeds instead.

I would actually like to see a breeding ban on XL Bullies along with pocket/micro bullies, brachycephalic breeds, and other horrifically deformed breeds e.g. dachshunds on health grounds. I also think muzzling the existing XL bully types in public is a good call but this needs to be done in conjunction with other measures because BSL alone does not and has not ever worked.

In what way am I embarrassing myself? Because I don’t believe you can pick a particular breed and demand that can be banned without changing the law so idiot backstreet breeders won’t do the same with another breed next year?

Do you honestly think banning XL’s will do anything except get rid of a specific breed? A different breed will take its place and become the next ‘demon dog’. Grow up