Dogs Everywhere

I am also not unaware that you have agreed with something slightly different than I actually said, and also slipped parents with children in before dog owners on your little list).

No 'slipping on my little list' . Just posting in the usual way.

My point being it's not just dog owners who should be singled out.

I don't see why humans should be put off going to Cornwall or the Lake District just because the dog contingent have taken over.

If enough of you , the dog avoiders contingent, want to go to Cornwall and the Lake District do so.

Money talks.

You seem to want to antagonise even when we agree, I am not sure why.
(I am also not unaware that you have agreed with something slightly different than I actually said, and also slipped parents with children in before dog owners on your little list).

I hated people smoking in the cinema, in restaurants, at work. That used to be allowed. I was angry about it, even though it was legal.
Just because something is legal or allowed, doesn't mean we can't be annoyed by it.
I am so much happier now smoking is banned in indoor places. I only wish we'd get back to banning dogs.
I didn't have a problem with dogs in the 70s, 80s, 90s, even 2000s. It is only in the last few years that I cannot abide their presence everywhere because they really are overabundant in their presence now. I can't stand how they smell, their yapping or barking, their slobber, the lipstick dicks on display, absolutely gross. I don't see why humans should be put off going to Cornwall or the Lake District just because the dog contingent have taken over. I too only book hotels where they clearly state no dogs, but still people take their dogs in. I complained at the hotel in Ambleside only to be told dogs aren't allowed in most rooms, but people can call up and book a set of particular rooms. Means the dogs are in the lifts and restaurants. Exactly what I tried to avoid.
Dogs are dirty vermin, I don't understand how people overlook the shit-eating habits, or pissing up lampposts, shitting on paths, and thing that's just fine.

We actually agree!

But who wouldn't ?

Customers of a cafe should exercise an element of self management.

🤷‍♀️

We actually agree!

Parents with small children, dog owners and other humans alike.

As already stated, in a busy cafe, you would hope that customers would be able to cope with an element of self management.

We agree then.

As already stated, in a busy cafe, you would hope that customers would be able to cope with an element of self management.

One of my dogs hates being out of her comfort zone.

She loves being out for hours walking or laying on our sofa. The few times we've nipped into a pub after a walk she is just restless and whinges so we don't bother. She is happy to be left at home away from people.

well trained dogs are a joy but even then such dogs would have been left at home back then wouldn’t they?

Agreed.

And back before that they would have been allowed to roam out all day.

Our culture seems to have changed.

I actually think if nobody is going to be at home for long periods (both working, kids at school, for example) then a paid dog walker or even doggy day care is an excellent idea, and shows that an owner is doing their best by their pet. Going to day care, or having a walker come in, doesn't mean the dog cannot also be trained to spend time alone.

well trained dogs are a joy but even then such dogs would have been left at home back then wouldn’t they?

While some responsibility lies with those running the cafe, when they are busy making and serving food, clearing tables and so on, you'd hope the dog owners would also exercise a little common sense too, surely?

Of course dog owners should exercise common sense. Just like the rest of the population.

Ultimately if you open a dogs welcome cafe or not there's a finite number of dogs or humans that are appropriate.

Just as if too many people were crowding in. That's for the cafe to manage.

Well, most sensible people might think it was unlikely, I imagine you'll also get the odd 'it's busy, one more dog won't matter/a few more customers won't matter/they obviously welcome dogs/look at all those other lovely dogs/it's raining/I'm starving' etc approaches.
As for the bus thing, I have frequently read phrases such like 'the bus driver should make space for me/my pram/my buggy because there's hardly any buses/it's raining/I'm late/it's not fair'.....etc. There are a surprising number of people who assume they should always be accommodated - these people exist outside and inside the dog owning world, sadly.

I think it's ridiculous humanising animals. We all have to cope with uncertainties in life, sometimes life is tough. I really can't understand why it's so difficult for a dog to be left for a number of hours whilst the owner goes out. All seems crazy, doggy daycare, dog walkers. There are a lot of people who must have a lot of spare cash. I'm wondering how since so many people are complaining of rising costs. We have had dogs all of our lives and they've stayed at home no problem when we go to work. Perfectly happy and calm because we don't project our anxieties and fears onto them.

While some responsibility lies with those running the cafe, when they are busy making and serving food, clearing tables and so on, you'd hope the dog owners would also exercise a little common sense too, surely?
As for making views known, I firmly believe in 'voting with my feet', not just in relation to dogs being allowed or not but in other areas which I feel strongly about (e.g. there is a local place which employs local teenagers, which you might think is great in terms of opportunities, but they are failing to train them in even basics, which makes it not quite so great for the teenagers or customers who are consistently let down by this).

Also, there is the question of accepting that while a place might be dog friendly, if there are already 3 in there and space is limited, is it really a good time to add a 4th?
It might be a question in theory but in reality, that's not a likely situation. If that situation was to arise, it's unlikely the 4th person would want to come in.

There will always be exceptional circumstances. If there are already 4 babies with pushchairs in a bus, is it a good time to add a 4th one. In this unlikely scenario, number 4 would wait for the next bus.

Of course that's hard to 'police' but does prove that there should always be other considerations as well as it just saying 'dogs welcome'.

And this is where the owners of any establishment need to step in. They set the criteria.

Equally people who do not want to be around dogs, need to drive their opinion in the same way. They have a voice too, as we see on here.

@vivainsomnia others may have different experiences, but my overall experience (locally and hearing people from other areas accounts) is that the question of whether to be 'dog friendly' has shifted in emphasis - what might have been 'should we allow dogs?' has morphed into 'why shouldn't we allow dogs?'. There is more and more of a cultural expectation that dogs should be allowed in cafes, and to a lesser extent imho, shops too. This is driven both by responsible and less responsible dog owners - the first category definitely present less of any issue (though will still be an issue to some. e.g. those with allergies) than the second. Also, there is the question of accepting that while a place might be dog friendly, if there are already 3 in there and space is limited, is it really a good time to add a 4th? Of course that's hard to 'police' but does prove that there should always be other considerations as well as it just saying 'dogs welcome'.

It would make my dog anxious to be in that situation I agree.

But going to dog welcoming cafes seems to be a whole culture shift and expectation, generally.

I agree.
My point was really in relation to some people who claim their pet gets anxiety when it's actually either the owner who has anxiety leaving them for a short time or that the owner hasn't trained the pet properly/sought advice to deal with anxiety. Of course there might be a few pets who are anxious, no matter how much work an owner does, but then taking them into a cafe/shop full of potential other people/dogs/noises/smells might not be the best idea either.

I think well trained dogs go to indoor places ,where they are welcome, as well as the badly trained ones.

Train their dogs properly, like some owners do now?

I’m in my 50s and can remember a time when only guide dogs were allowed indoors in any public area. What did dog owners do then?

I never take my dog to indoor places and it's never been a problem. We're always at the beach if dogs are allowed.

I suppose dog owners now have different habits if they see " dogs welcome" or they seek out places where dogs are allowed. It's a different culture. Just as dogs used to roam free in in the day.

Where I live there is a chain of cafes with a Dog on its logo precisely for people to take dogs. Not everyone in there has dogs though.

My dog wouldn't be able to relax in that situation, so I don't take him.