To think that everyone WFH thinks they are more productive but this view isn’t necessarily shared

@Privatelyliving indeed! I'm sure research would show it increases volunteer productivity or retention.

@Deathbyfluffy

As a team leader I find it’s those with kids who tend to take the piss most - a subset of parents seem to think that it’s acceptable to have their kids at home and in their care when ‘working’

You sound like a bigot tbh.

But surely making the volunteers feel included/welcome/valued is important work?

I definitely am, if I’m in the office at least a 1/3 my time is spent chatting with the volunteers. They are lovely but it isn’t my most productive time so I limit that to twice a week and work the rest of the time at home.

Its not about how individually productive each employee is , it’s about how productive the whole organisation is . Research in the US has shown that for repetitive tasks WFH works well but in terms of building cohesion and creativity it mitigates against . In addition it encourages a silo mentality and makes systemic change difficult . It’s far harder to bring everyone on board with new methods of working when they are working in disparate locations, it can be done but involves a much much bigger organisation change and management style and huge investment both in time and money.

Companies are also seeing higher turnover from in particular younger people because they feel less connection and attachment . This costs money. In addition insurance claims are rising based on both unsuitable working environment, inadequate supervision and poor data protection.

All pension schemes in the U.K. are invested in commercial property as it was previously seen as a safe bet. So if you are in a pension scheme then a crash in commercial property will affect your pension.

''@Deathbyfluffy

As a team leader I find it’s those with kids who tend to take the piss most - a subset of parents seem to think that it’s acceptable to have their kids at home and in their care when ‘working’.

We’ve had to bring those people back to the office, which is a pain for everyone involved.''

Just sounds to me like the issue is with you being a poor team manager.

Because you just made a random, blanket statement and implied having kids is an issues. The reality is that some people, parents or not, make poor employees and it is your job as a manager to work with each individual to improve their performance. Not to demonise parents in general.

You are also being discriminatory if you target/ treat people in a less favourable way simply because they have children (ie asking parents to go back in the office but maintain flexible options for other staff).

Not to mention foolish if the plan is to remove home working for everyone because a tiny minority abuse the system, because you will lose many good employees that way as they will simply move to another employer with better flexible working policies.

All in all it confirms my suspicion that poo/ lazy managers who can't be bothered to deal with individual performance issues use and instead use ''let's blame WFH for everything'' as an excuse for being crap at their jobs.

I have a few issues with WFH:
1.) people might feel that they're finishing all their work but don't consider the team as a whole. As I'm full time in the office, often tasks which are unallocated come to me, as it's easier for people to explain the case face to face. I suppose that's just human nature. Also covering for colleague sickness or annual leave tends to come to the person in the office. No one covers for me when I'm off as they're all WFH and can't see what's not being done.
2.) it's not fair that those of us who can't wfh should pay more for petrol, childcare, trains, food, car insurance when our wages haven't increased to reflect this. Those WFH could just come into the office in winter to save money on heating bills but I can't just WFH all summer to save on childcare.
3.) we deal with very confidential information and this has to be considered at all times. Therefore living in a shared house/ parents house and WFH was never going to be ideal. How can you discriminate like that and say you can WFH as you have a home office and live alone but you can't as you live with your mum and she might see your screen if you're working at the kitchen table? I don't think new employees get the importance of this and think they can take their laptops to the local cafe, merrily displaying who is in which prison and what they did. Managers don't think to point out every possible breach of confidentiality because the world is changing so fast.
4.) safeguarding employees. Lisa turning up with a black eye gets missed. Morris smelling a bit like whisky gets missed. Ella seeming more and more withdrawn each day gets missed. A lot of people only have work in their lives and so if their only interaction with the outside world is now done remotely with cameras off, then how will anyone know if there is something wrong. Do you know how many colleagues have confided in people at work over the years? That's a huge support network which has disappeared!
5.) impact on home work balance. I just don't want to work all day at the dining room table where I eat with my kids at weekends. I don't want to bring my work world into my house. Much easier to just keep working later as you're already home, much harder to switch off. Have colleagues waking up and turning their laptops on at 7am, it's really unhealthy.
6.) training new starters and promotion opportunities as stated by PP. I think women will set themselves back if they stay at home for childcare reasons/ ease/ keeping on top of domestic stuff and loud, arrogant men go in everyday (because their wives are WFH doing everything). They will become insufferable in their efforts to be seen as productive and team players.
7.) I had hoped that WFH might help with climate change but there seems to be more cars on the road than ever? I've heard people considering schools further away as they'll have more time to get their kids there as WFH so no commute. Also a lot of people moved further away in the pandemic so now have further to drive to get back to the office.

But the productivity thing long predates the pandemic. It’s been an issue for a decade or more. That has far more to do with pay structures and the benefits system than it does working from home.

Mine is less output and more I just have to answer the phone. I do that whether I'm in the office or at home, we are monitored the same with call/screen recordings so makes no difference
I probably get more of my own work done at home because in the office I spend a lot of time helping newer staff which technically isn't my job

I love WFH and having the head space to come with new ideas and blast through admin.

I’m busier in the office the day or two I go in due to cramming meetings but I’m definitely better at my job now vs full time office. If we’re ever forced back I would leave.

How have you managed that? I mean manage as in what management process did you use, to just bring the parents back in?

I think you have to remember there is an interest in people using the office -gets them using transport - and amenities - the owners of the buildings don't want them empty either. In reality it is not all about productivity.

This. Lots of government and well paid senior corporate staff have investments in urban property that are heavily reliant on commercial property values (which could plummet if demand for offices disappears). There's a massive amount if economic activity around people woh.

• transport
• Hotels for work travel
• cafes/coffee shops as people buy lunch
• people buying more clothing for work
• office furniture and refurbishments
• working parents spending on longer childcare hours due to commute time
• people buying vehicles to commute
• paying building cleaners,office security teams etc

As a team leader I find it’s those with kids who tend to take the piss most - a subset of parents seem to think that it’s acceptable to have their kids at home and in their care when ‘working’.

We’ve had to bring those people back to the office, which is a pain for everyone involved.

We're all 100% in the office (less the odd day WFH when circumstances demand it).

Whatever productivity some of our teams gained through lack of disturbance in lockdown, we lost tenfold in collaboration and training newer team members. I've been with our small company over 15 years and am one of a few 'go-to' people for questions from any team.

When I was WFH teams and phone calls were far more disruptive to my own work than a quick face to face 'Que; do you know how to solve this?' question ever is in the office, with the side effect that nobody other than the asker heard the answer, so there was no learning by osmosis like we have in the office.

I'm sure not everyone says they're more productive WFH.

But I know I am! In the office there are so many distractions (mostly chatting, general noise and hubbub, people coming to the front door constantly). At home, I just get my head down and get on with it only stopping to get a drink or for the loo.

I wouldn't say that's the case for all homeworkers though.

I think for me WFH is more helf to being productive. I struggle to be focused on work in the morning unless I’m tasked by someone else to go and do something. It’s not until about 10:30-11am does my self initiation kick in and I get more and more productive as the day goes on. When I was expected in the office at 8 and the working day would start to wind down at 4, this just as I was really into my peak. Now with WFH I can stay in my productive peak a lot longer and still be able to do dinner and other stuff because I’m not wasting time commuting.

I wfh and it feels relentless tbh, I eat my lunch at my desk and feel because I am in my own home I am always accessible and always at work! There's pros and cons to it and I have seen people who really do take the p**s, I have no idea how they get away with it because my workload is huge! I really do think it's down to individuals and their work ethic but the same can be said for those who do work on site.

My productivity is the same at home as it is in the office. There’s a lot of wasted time in the office. When I’ve got urgent work to do with deadlines it’s easier to just get up and start work straight away and not worry about having to get food/ milk etc ready for the office and commuting etc.

It depends what I'm doing. Stuff I need to concentrate on like writing complicated spreadsheets with cross references or detailed writing is much better at home with minimal distractions and interruptions.

Informal collaboration is much better in the office.

Online meetings are probably better at home as my internet connection is more stable and there's less noise around but could be either...

I'm happy to be in 2 days a week but more than that on a regular basis is less productive - some weeks I might be in 4 days, others 1 or none...

Are we seriously discussing and probably talking shit about those wfh 3 years down the line ? Seriously? Op some days I’m not productive at home , I admit it. But some days in the office I’m not neither , depends on the workload. But I’m a happier person than the one I was 3 years ago when I was wasting my time waiting for an unreliable bus. Not sure what you really want to get from the thread which has spoken about loads od times in mn and always bashing those wfh. If we weren’t productive then companies wouldn’t call us back to the office , they would sack us

I went into the office today. Commute in took 25 mins more than usual due to a fault with the train and when I finally got into the office I didn't actually get to sit down at my desk and do any work until the afternoon because I was constantly interrupted by colleagues wanting this, that and the other.

So yes I am more productive at home but I do think interacting with colleagues in person is important even if it means I get less done in the office!

It really isn't all one or the other. Good companies allow a flexible mix, so I work from home the first hour or two, then come in for the rest of the day. If needed, I am in easier of course. This way I don't get stuck in the morning traffic, do my reports, emails at home without everyone around and then am in. It is about the balance of the two and how it works best.

I think it makes a difference if you’re self employed as presumably you like your work as that’s why you started doing what you’re doing. A lot of people don’t particularly like their jobs they do it just for money. It’s different if you started something because you’ve turned a passion into a business. Most of us want to do as little work as possible I’m not doing it for fun!

Yes @UpperLowerMiddleClass exactly. I'm in a job which has some detailed technical work but is also very relationship based and if you are at home all the time then you might get the technical bits done ok, but developing the relationships helps with getting things done more quickly and to a better quality. You also get more chance to be involved in big decisions by dint of overhearing stuff!

I was in the office today and managed to grab my director for a casual chat about positioning of a piece of work, bumped into someone in the canteen who I'm going to need on side for something tricky, and took one of my line managees for coffee to talk some things through. Among other things. It's not wasted time, it greases the wheel! I'm usually in the office or out and about at meetings 3 days a week which is about right.

Of course your job may be totally non dependent on others, but in reality I think very few are. I hated being a self employed consultant, it was so boring only answering to myself.

The company I work for have told phone based staff that children or animals must not be heard in the background. As all calls are monitored, this is easily manageable. If it continued to be an issue, the employee would be made to work at the office for their full shifts.

Same for productivity, if productivity fails while working from home, you would be back in the office prompto! Although you don't see anyone saying if productivity is low in the office, then you must work from home!

I honestly don't understand the backlash about people who work from home, if you get a poor customer journey, take the employees name and report to the company. If the same employee is getting multiple bad feedback, they can check for a pattern and see if it only happens when working from home!

Like it or not, working from home, looks like it is here to stay!