Just read the bloody uniform policy!!!

It's an insult to professional, hardworking, educated people everywhere.

The mere fact that someone has the time to go to every child and ask them to show them an item of clothing they're not going to wear!

Some people have terrible judgement. But the troubling thing is that they think they're in the right!

I used to have a deranged history teacher - she was always strict but the point came where we genuinely wondered if she had lost her mind. Towards the end of the year, she asked someone where some of the work we had done at the start of the year. The response was that it was at home, (presumably because it wasn't relevant to what we were learning months later.)

In fact, not a single person in the room had it with them - we had so much paper in our files that carrying around unnecessary work was ridiculous, and meant we'd be turning up with three ring binders for just one of our six lessons that day.

She went nuclear.

In fairness, I’ve just had a look at the current uniform policy and it is not super prescriptive or hard to follow - just no skirts.

It’s this one

@CruCru Can you name the school? The policy will be on their website, so you won't be disclosing any confidential or personal information

A school I know of has banned skirts so all pupils have to wear trousers. They claimed it was to be inclusive of transgender children but I understand that it was actually because the teachers had had enough of telling girls that their skirts were too short. These days, making girls kneel so you can check that their skirt is knee length is quite a weird, problematic thing to do.

You need to challenge the school under the Equality Act 2010. No child with a disability needs to be sent to a specialist school because they find an aspect of the uniform difficult to manage - or for any other reason for which schools are required to make reasonable adjustment under the Act. There was a discussion upthread with parents of special needs children who said that arguing for these adjustments was difficult as schools require medical evidence of disability etc. In actual fact to be eligible for reasonable adjustment under the Act, a diagnosis isn’t required. The disability or health condition just needs to comply with the eligibility conditions under the Act. And ‘mainstream can’t meet that’ need is illegal where reasonable adjustment is possible.

You should call for an annual review to sort out your child's education. A mainstream school claiming it is unable to make reasonable adjustments for disability is not only being ridiculous but is acting unlawfully and the local authority should override them and name them anyway - if that is the school you want. Mind you, you could very reasonably name any other school on the basis that this school is obviously run by bigots.

Ballet flats aren't practical but for my slim-footed child these were often the only sort that fitted and we would struggle to find anything that conformed to requirements.
As for the requirements for specific tartans on skirts, only trousers for boys, different necklines on shirts, blazers to be worn at all times, these are draconian, expensive, and impractical.

I've said to DC on multiple occasions that if staff are not wearing jackets indoors, children shouldn't be expected to. It's already an established fact that children struggle more to regulate body temperature, and we wouldn't take a dog out for a walk with a coat on when it's hot, so this feels like a rule for the sake of rules.

Ballet flats aren't practical but for my slim-footed child these were often the only sort that fitted and we would struggle to find anything that conformed to requirements.
As for the requirements for specific tartans on skirts, only trousers for boys, different necklines on shirts, blazers to be worn at all times, these are draconian, expensive, and impractical.

I've said to DC on multiple occasions that if staff are not wearing jackets indoors, children shouldn't be expected to. It's already an established fact that children struggle more to regulate body temperature, and we wouldn't take a dog out for a walk with a coat on when it's hot, so this feels like a rule for the sake of rules.

Most of those children managed out will have SEND and/or complicated family backgrounds. I can’t celebrate such awful ableism.

EHCPs can’t specify exactly what clothes need adjustments, because guess what happens? Schools use that to say they can’t meet the child’s needs. My dc can only tolerate joggers. She’s been out of school for 6 months. No one would be harmed by her wearing them to school. But mainstream says no, can’t meet that need. (Special schools are full and overflowing).

a little off topic but regarding the bullying for cheap clothes etc
I find it less of a thing now and actually cheaper shops are deemed popular and “ fashionable you can get away with primark and SHEIN a lot easier now.

When you say "he will not hesitate to manage our parents and DC ..." am I right in thinking you meant "manage out"?

If so, that is illegal and utterly unprofessional. No child can be excluded on account of anything their parent does, and schools should be capable of educating and meeting the needs of all the children placed there. "Managing out" indicates that it is accepted that the child does not deserve exclusion, so the process generally involves unlawful exclusions and making the kid's life so miserable that the parents withdraw them. Ofsted are likely to be looking very closely at the retention rates in this school and asking some hard questions.

I really wouldn't want my child to be in such a badly run school as this.

That sounds perilously like an illegal exclusion. That's not setting a very good example about complying with the rules, is it?

There's a report on X of an Academy where pupils were made to sit in silence for three hours in the school hall on the first day of term for the offence of not bringing blazers into school with them - yes, they weren't saying they had to wear them, they are saying the committed a heinous breach of discipline in not bringing in a piece of clothing which was blatantly wholly unsuitable for the weather. And for this it was worth depriving them of education.

I really, really struggle to understand the thought processes of anyone who thinks that is remotely sensible. Clearly it won't make the pupils respect school discipline, rather the reverse.

Schools that won't let pupils make their own decisions about taking off blazers and jumpers in hot weather really need to be reported for safeguarding breaches.

we shouldn't passively accept any capricious rule with our brain switched off just because someone imposed it as a rule
I agree and think some things should be challenged via the appropriate channels.

But also I think for people need to balance that with a little bit of common sense and not buy their children items that are quite obviously outside the uniform policy on many levels.

One thing I notice a lot from people who defend ignoring any simple rule they don't like is that "X doesn't matter". If "X doesn't matter" then have the maturity to accept that not every organisation in life will do things your way and follow the simple rule.

If we're being honest the parents who spend £££ on designer ballet flats with huge logos on and go sad facing it to the press are not the parents who will reasonably raise a complaint or concern with school about something that is reasonable to challenge.

we shouldn't passively accept any capricious rule with our brain switched off just because someone imposed it as a rule

totally agree

My son went to a school with a strict headteacher, strict uniform policy and good results.

However, there was no requirement to wear a blazer and no nonsense about not being allowed to take a jumper off on a hot day.

Funnily enough, it worked fine, and the teachers and SMT were in control.

@FishyTree "Not coincidentally, the school has excellent behaviour and great results." The Sutton trust is adamant that there is no conclusive evidence of a link between uniforms and school performance. You can easily search their website for details.

@Solonge "Give a thought to the good reasons for uniforms"
There are good reasons to have a reasonable dress code, appropriate for the weather conditions, which doesn't require buying items from one supplier only.

There are no good reasons to buy items from one supplier only, to have a specific logo, or to prevent the logo from being applied to generic items with patches etc.

There are no good reasons to ignore the Sutton Trust conclusions of no clear evidence of a link between uniforms and behaviour and performance.

There are no good reasons to ignore that, all too often, a new head changes uniform policy because they want to be seen doing something, not because a different uniform will change anything.

There are no good reasons to force a uniform code which is too hot in the summer or too cold in the winter. There was a school which confiscated a heavier winter coat - worn after the kid had got sick and the GP advised he needed a heavier coat https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/jesmond-park-academys-uniform-policy-26016890
How would you like a job in which you can only wear short sleeves when the Supreme Boss so decrees?

There are no good reasons for daily inspections checking things like the right shade of grey or the exact length in mm of a skirt.

There are no good reasons to apply punishments which are not proportionate. A child wore ballerinas, which were clearly forbidden? Send her home; give her a 30-minute detention. But giving her smaller shoes which then give her blisters, or keeping her in detention for the whole day, is wrong, inhumane and counter-productive.

There are no good reasons to ignore we must safeguard children against the risk of repressed, unhinged individuals having a power trip and getting off on enforcing capricious, unjustified rules with disproportionate punishments.

If you disagree, @Solonge , can I ask you why?

I think parents would buy the same shoes if they were unbranded. There’s a lack of choice for comfortable and hard wearing shoes that fit the policy

You absolutely can and should.
The point is not that we shouldn't follow the rules.
It's that we shouldn't passively accept any capricious rule with our brain switched off just because someone imposed it as a rule.

In the past there were rules to justify all kinds of things which are now seen as unacceptable atrocities: rules to prevent women from voting, to consider black people as cattle and not humans, etc.

I really think some people on this thread would do well to consider what happens when headteachers and teachers are not in charge. You end up with poor behaviour, poor teaching and poor outcomes for students.

The head at the DC’s school is a strong (some may say dictatorial) character and what he says goes. He will not hesitate to manage our parents and DC he believes are not conducive to the success of the school.

Not coincidentally, the school has excellent behaviour and great results.

I am in favour of uniform - the safeguarding it provides is enough reason.

But it needs to be practical, comfortable and affordable.

I don't agree with embroidered trousers and shirts. I don't agree with needing three separate pairs of specialist trainers for PE, like my old school used to demand. I think blazers always look terrible.

A shirt, a jumper, trousers and an iron-on badge for the jumper will do the trick. And probably black shoes.

Drop the nonsense about hair length, no stud earrings, socks of a particular length and colour, backpacks, hairbands, bobbles, glasses, pencil cases, lunchboxes and whatever else they can intefere in.

Since lockdown everyoen dresses casually in the office and I hate never knowing what to wear. Uniforms make things much easier.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12488189/Furious-parents-blast-schools-sending-home-pupils-wearing-unsuitable-footwear-including-Vivienne-Westwood-pumps-Nike-walking-boots.html

These stories run each year with the thicko parents usually shown with enraged or dopey faces and the dear children often showing off said shoes... neither appear to be able to read the uniform list though.

I think it depends whether they are run by the local authority - in which case there is some accountability, or whether they are academies, in which case they seem to be able to do what they like and nobody appears to have any powers to stop them.

It's not about uniforms per se, it's about stupid uniform policies.

Is it really so hard for people to grasp the nuance here?

Uniforms are fine in principle.

Ridiculous uniform policies which are expensive and over restrictive are not.

And forcing someone to wear a blazer and a tie in 30 degree weather never protected anyone from bullying.