Just read the bloody uniform policy!!!

Totally agree - they should be able to take them off in lessons if they are too hot. We've had kids actually faint with heat.

You can follow the rules without being pedantic to the point that kids are overheating like this.

LadyBird1973
The problem is that many schools have ended up being ridiculously prescriptive precisely because they had issues with parents not using common sense.

Of the schools I've worked in, the ones who went tight and single supplier were the ones with parents and students who apparently find it impossible to understand that "plain black school trousers, not jeans or leggings" means buy a pair of school trousers.

It's a uniform so I'm under no illusion that this will get a load of 'but does it matter if they wear leggings or jeans'.

Meanwhile the school that has parents with an ounce of common sense has students wearing black school trousers in a cut that fits and suits them. This school hasn't needed to get picky because the parents aren't idiots.

Unfortunately because some parents are oddly obsessed with doing the opposite of very simple rules, schools are forced into spelling it out (and even then some parents are either especially ineffective or have so many school hang ups that they still think buying a pair of Vivienne Westwood shoes with a huge logo is their priority over getting their child a pair of school shoes).

There are health risks to overheating, so there's a potential safety issue there.

Yes agree with both of you here.

Yes it is true that school rules are a good lesson in dealing with petty officialdom (not driving on the left or the other rules you mention which aren't petty) but eg being fined for overstaying in a car park by a few minutes.

But uniform rules impose a disproportionate burden on low income families, and are also take up too much teacher time that could be used more wisely, or just give teachers more time to themselves!

I don't disagree with simple uniforms, I do agree with expensive uniforms with petty rules like having to wear a blazer in 30 degree temperatures (and get rid of ties, nobody wears them in offices anymore - not even in law firms!)

Where did I say that I don't agree with people voting for (or against, for that matter) this petition? People can vote however they like. I said I was baffled at the amount of people who were going to sign this, and clearly explained why I am so surprised.

This school's policy on nose or any other facial jewellery is apparently for health and safety reasons, not because they don't want to see it. Although I concur that a small nose stud is probably no more a safety risk than a pair of earrings.

If you send your child to a school, there's a reasonable expectation that you have read and accepted the school's policies for the duration that your child is there. To deliberately contravene a required conduct (and the parent here has admitted the timing of the piercing was purposely made to cause an issue), then that's just ridiculous. Not to mention bloody unfair on the child who has now been pulled out of school by her parent as a protest, and will likely stick out like a sore thumb at an age where 'fitting in' is a big deal for a teenager.

Not sure about safety but certainly discomfort and a distraction to concentration on school work. However I have seen school prospectuses with kids wearing blazers in labs where the cuffs are precariously close to Bunsen burners!

I also don’t think uniforms do prevent rivalry between the "haves and the have nots". The catchment area of my school (Scotland so all the children in the catchment attend the same school) included one of the poorest parts of town as well as the richest part where people live in mansions. And wearing a uniform didn’t stop us knowing who lived in the council flats and who lived in the million pound houses.

Absolutely! I grew up in a posh part of west London with very obvious pockets of poverty. Kids growing up in mansions and bedsits . Visiting other kids houses I saw both opulence and squalor. I went to a non uniform primary and it really wouldn’t have been possible to tell who was well off and who wasn’t from what kids were wearing. The only exception was probably the very poorest kids with their hokey vests and jumpers with threads pulled. But that would be the same with uniforms.

Yep. I'd also add that the behaviour of some schools regarding uniforms is potentially detrimental to safety in itself. Like the example of the year 7 kids being expected to swelter in their blazers.

Absolutely this!

My sons school that has a uniform, but not particularly silly rules, does insist that skirts are bought from one stockist so they’re a set length. Doesn’t stop them being rolled up though. I saw two girls walking to school yesterday, you could actually see the bottom of their arse cheeks 🙈

I don’t know if they’d have walked round school like that admittedly

Skirt length rules are that unreasonable IMO. I’d soon get some words of advice if I went to work in a skirt that short

I think parents feel it's right to ignore some school uniform rules because often there's no legitimate justification for the specific rule and it actually infringes upon the parents' right to make certain decisions regarding their own child.
Anything that is required for safety is a rule parents should adhere to - anything that's about controlling appearance but doesn't improve educational outcomes, is pointless and doesn't deserve respect.

In short, schools need sensible and fewer rules regarding appearance, if they want parental support.

I think ballet flats are a bad choice, especially ridiculously expensive ones! Ballet flats just don't last long so spending more than £20 on a pair is silly in my opinion.
We've sent DD to primary school in ankle boots as physio advised to get shoes with ankle support. It's against the uniform policy but luckily school said it was ok

I mean it could also be a general lack of respect for schools on the whole, because of other issues faced. When I was at school, I adhered to the uniform rules (though quite often the shoes would damage my feet). However, the schools failed to deal with me being physically bullied, held me back on my reading skills until my parents complained, failed to stop boys deliberately exposing themselves to me in the toilets, and forced to me participate in assembly prayer when i’m an atheist. So some may understandably take the attitude that the school can shove ridiculous uniform policies up its arse

There are much more important issues these schools should be dealing with than whether a shoe has a tick on it.

I thought the point of a school uniform was to reduce the risk of an individual standing out from their peers. Particularly when they come from a poorer background.

Nothing to do with enhancing learning or fitting into work in later life.

A uniform policy is the policy that needs to be followed - it may be ridiculous like some other school rules are but it's the rules that need to be followed.

why do parents feel it's ok to bend them!

Especially with the general trend towards fewer unnecessary dress codes in work, and more work done remotely too. Kids at school today are much less likely to encounter a you have to wear X just because attitude than they would've been even a decade or two ago. Twenty or thirty years ago, there was at least more chance that this sort of clothing rule for its own sake was something they genuinely were likely to have to deal with at work.

You say this is a simple rule, but I believe part of the origin of this thread and from many of the comments, it’s actually not very practical for all parents to follow. Realistically, many shoes have have brands on them. Traditional school shoes are also not always the best for foot development and so comfort should come first. This was advice I got from an NHS physio.

If when my child starts school, I can find shoes I deem suitable for my child to wear, that adhere to school rules, then great. If I can’t, tough tits for the school.

I think the point is that the rules themselves are stupid. Sounds to me like having the rule there (which is stupid), is causing more trouble than if the rule wasn’t there. Just because it’s a school rule doesn’t make it right. And regardless of who chose the shoe or whatever, putting a kid in isolation because a shoe has a logo on it is inexcusable
If it wasn't a shoe rule they were whining about though, it would be another rule.
Organisations of 1000 people don't run based on "only follow the organisation expectations that you feel like".

Even if there was no uniform and there was a dress code, these are the students and parents who will still do what they want and moan about it because waaah I don't like the rule. It's stupid.

I have a lot of sympathy for parents who've tried to get practical school shoes that are within the uniform and have to deal with rubbish from school.

But I've no sympathy with parents who see a fairly simple rule, obviously do the opposite (because they've either got no ability to resist pester power or they haven't developed adult maturity yet) and moan about it. If they want their children to call the shots and only follow rules they like then they can home educate.

I frequently wander around in bare feet in the office. Like you, no-one seems to be bothered.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the expectation to be that blazers are worn at all times during the day. Obviously exceptions should be made if a particular classroom is absolutely boiling.

I’m guessing you’re one of those people who doesn’t run warm?

What is considered boiling in a classroom is subjective and that doesn’t even include the body heat coming off a classroom full of students. I wouldn’t be comfortable in a blazer even if it was 18 degrees C in every classroom if I had to wear it all day.

As other posters have pointed out even adults have the choice whether they can take their own blazer/cardigan off dependent on their own comfortability yet children and teenagers seemingly can’t make the choice about their own bodies.

nothing you have said has anything to do with my point, though

of course children - teens especially - will always push boundaries and flaunt rules, it's a rite of passage in a way; of course there are some parents who will be a PITA a anyway

It shouldn't be teachers' job to check the lengths of skirts or the brand of shoe or insist on wearing blazers in 27 degree heat - or adherence to other prescriptive codes. It's an utter waste of a specialist professional's time.

I was at a school that was generally quite strict in terms of discipline. It had a uniform including a blazer, but the blazer was only for outdoor wear and in practice was rarely worn apart from a few days in the spring and autumn when it was too warm for coats but not warm enough to go without any sort of cover outdoors. Indoors we wore jumpers if we wanted to, and we had a free choice whether we wore long or short sleeved shirts. No teacher dictated when we put jumpers on or took them off, yet they managed to keep discipline perfectly easily. In fact, in the winter when the school's heating just didn't cope, we regularly wore cloaks indoors. In the sixth form we had no uniform and just had to wear smart casual. Despite all this I don't think any of my schoolmates had any issue fitting in at work in later life.

I do therefore wonder now why academies in particular make such an issue out of uniform when decades of experience demonstrates that it just isn't necessary or helpful.

I can say whatever I like matey ;)

And yes, at the companies i’ve worked at, if someone is caught wearing flip flops, they are told not to wear them again for safety reasons.

What I do wear to the office is converse, because they are a safe and comfortable shoe. No one cares because I get my work done and what i wear doesn’t impact the quality of my work or my behaviour.

Yep, I'm remote now but I wore flip flops in multiple office roles before then.