Young men hating women

Not our experience of our 20 year old and his friends/our son in law or nephews.

Get off SM.

So that’s the best you can manage? Toilets.

I've witnessed some very aggressive behaviour from young men to young women which I've found really disturbing. I don't remember ever having been spoken to in that way when I was 17 or so.

I very much hope I'm wrong but it's as if young girls seem to accept that men can treat them like that.

The rights to single sex spaces, for one. No one back then questioned it. They even had female only toilets and change rooms. We no longer (or not as much) have that. Some women are participating in society less because of that. It has a roll-on affect.

Really? What rights did women have 50 years ago that we don’t have now?

Todays generation of women have less rights than they did decades ago.

Are you saying men on the internet aren't a good example of society, @FrippEnos ? And what 'prejudiced views' of the OP would that be?

I think you need to meet some men in the real world.

I've had the displeasure to have my algorithm to lead me into red pill tiktok.

Thankfully I haven't had too many runins with tater tots. But a few male colleagues have really surprised me with how they talk with other men in the office when they don't think women can hear them

I notice it when driving and so does my DD.

It's something I hear about (incel/Andrew Tate etc) but haven't experienced in my life. I work at a university and deal with lots of male students (including Masters and PhD students). I also have a lot of young male colleagues in their 20s. They're all extremely polite and respectful. I remember thinking they are more mature and polite than young men were 30 years ago, when I was young.

I think there's been a bit of a push back from certain type of men following the feminist movements. They're men who feel their rights have been eroded by women's rights. That coupled with social media giving more fringe groups a voice.

Andrew Tate is an example of a type of toxic masculinity that some men (and women) find appealing. It's a real concern how many young men are taken in my it. I was shocked by secondary school DS saying how many boys he knew watched his videos/agree with him.

I find younger men more respectful now than 20 years ago when I was a teenager. Like a pp poster said, if a young man was to go in Mumsnet it would appear most women hate men.

I definitely see it online and I agree it's a backlash against feminism.

I think it's also a shoddy attempt at humour. It seems to be competitive online about what the worst possible thing they can post about is. I think that's likely not helped by strong censorship on social media. It makes it 'cool' to break the rules - and with anonymity too. I'm not sure how genuine it is in their real life. I doubt they'd say those things out loud.

But generally, I find the men I know are much more likely to call themselves a feminist these days. It's almost to the point I find it quite tedious. It feels more like showboating to me sometimes.

I don’t know, I do think there is a current backlash against feminism but not sure it’s particularly coming from young men particularly other than specific demographics eg incels etc. My mid teenage son and his friends seem pretty feminist. They are also very pro trans rights and I know different people see that topic differently.

@CallumDansTransitVan In my experience it is overwhelmingly men being aggressive in their comments to me online. The disrespect they appear to have towards women is appalling.

I think this is largely it: it's the losers who are angry, that women do not need or want them.

Normal, decent men have no reason to be angry at women and aren't because they will also have successful lives so are not looking for a scapegoat to blame like the losers and incels with their (usually self-inflicted!) misfortune.

So they don't like having to compete on a level playing field (well, more level than it was. Still not level by any means yet they are still complaining!). Fundamentally it shows that there is still an "othering" or women in such people's mentality and they believe women are worth less than them hence the bruised egos when with the same opportunities more women are becoming graduates etc, per the article. Effectively they want to blame women for their failure to achieve their goals. Not a good look!

This is the classic thing of somebody so used to privilege that they feel entitled to it and therefore when their unfair advantage is reduced (not even removed) they paint themselves as a victim.

I think the boys and young men of today have grown up in a post-metoo world and this is going to have an impact.

The message for years now has been "girls: you can do this, be this, have that, you CAN do x, y, z if you want, you are perfect, don't let anyone hold you back".

Whereas with boys, its "don't do this, don't say that, x y z is toxic masculinity, don't copy his behaviour, don't be like him, be better, etc etc" A near-constant negative message.

There's also a rhetoric that women and girls are full of virtue and lightness and perfection, which isn't true and I think a lot of young people call out the double standards.

I think the sort of people you're talking about are kids and teenagers, who naturally have a very narrow view of the world and are fairly self centred. They only see what's around them, so are far less likely to show the compassion you expect to see.

I will say that in real life, I work with some men of around 25 and they're always decent and polite.

I think it's mostly an internet thing you're talking about. And you can find any and every sort of behaviour online.

You can of course have any opinion you like. I personally don't think though, that becoming antagonistic over something that is entirely legal is doing the cause of equality any good whatsoever.

Downunderduchess
I don't think that is just a male thing. People say things behind a computer screen they would never dream of face to face.

My personal feeling is those with extremely strong feelings about misogyny or misandry find themselves in certain corners of the net & surround themselves with echo chamber similar views. That is what needs addressed.

Definitely agree, in particular online. Can get quite nasty. I’ve had young men come at me when I talk about women’s rights etc. Been told their opinions are just as relevant and correct as mine, despite me giving my opinion as an actual woman and based on my lived experience in respect of how women are treated. And of course I’ve been accused of being transphobic when I’ve said nothing that could be construed as such. I think a lot of them just use social media as a way to take out their anger at women in general.

Lobby your member of parliament for a law change then. Until the law is changed it isn't up to anyone else to decide the morality of others.

I suspect you’ve forgotten that I can have any opinion on morality that I like. Even when men tell me otherwise. Pesky women with their opinions on the internet!

Really we need more men to stand up and call that behaviour out.

I know we shouldn't, it should be enough for a woman to call it out herself but there are not enough solid male role models for young men. They aren't getting positive messages at home so if noone steps up in their school/ community/ pub/ workplace where else are they meant to get a better message.

I think a lot of young men are struggling with the concept of what it is to be a man, what you should look like, feel like and behave and many don't have any space where they're able to openly explore that in a safe and reflective way. Youth centres who predominantly take on this work are being underfunded more than ever which limits the amount they can actually do.

Lots of them are now getting their info online and end up in echo chambers as a result since when you show an 'interest' in something (say watching a misogynistic video) the algorithm will automatically start throwing up more of the same. Social media platforms don't do enough to challenge this. And I think for young women, many of them see flaws and gaps in how feminism is presented a lot of the time and therefore struggle to identify and engage with it

Lobby your member of parliament for a law change then. Until the law is changed it isn't up to anyone else to decide the morality of others.