Young men hating women

I work in IT too, I've been about different companies a fair bit. Some places, definitely, have a bad culture.

At my last company, during a meeting one guy was describing an interaction with his wife that was just awful. A new, female, employee was talk about and they joked about going into the office to check her out and letching over her via office camera. The team leader was part of that. I think of around 60-80 employees there was around 4 women in total. Only one of those was below senior management level

Then there's the inappropriate relationship between a manager & team member at a different place. HR did the right thing and fired him, but universally every man who talked about it with me thought badly of her & blamed her for his exit. None of them hung out with her, or talked with her anymore than they had to for work. I was, literally, the only man who did. Men were at least 95% of the people in the office. Unsurprisingly, she left before too long.

There's more stories but I don't want to depress you. My current employer has many issues, they seem pretty decent on the equality front so far as I can tell, which is nice

I think extreme activists and the media have a large responsibility for this. The same with the increase of racism and homophobiia : instead of patiently and kindly working to overcome the disparity and hurdles people in this country are constantly told what they are "allowed to think" and that disagreement is the same as hatred. Sometimes they are not just told they're not allowed a different opinion but all of a sudden legal change is pushed through without any reference to popular opinion, voter agreement or a mandate from the population. Hence all of a sudden we have a billion new genders we all have to respect and anyone questioning this gets fired, cancelled, vilified, etc
This is exactly why society generally is getting worse and sadly that includes misogyny.

Yanbu

I think only a fool would deny this is an increasing problem.
The internet has enabled these men to find each other and validate their hatred. And it is hatred. We are under attack and the longer we refuse to see it the worse it will be for us.

Because they have influence and money. Plenty of women will still seek that in a man above any other issues or concerns.

I was at school / college / uni early 2000s to mid 2000s and I don't think it is any worse (or better) really now. I think the misogyny is different.

Only 15 years ago it was very common to be openly groped and sexually harassed in classroom. The sexual double standard was strong and I certainly felt boys and men really hated us, at a core level.

@AuContraire

"These angry men whip each other up into a wank-rage" - quote of the thread 😂

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish

"Lots of men are having to mind their language and moderate their viewpoints in public for fear of challenge and they dont like it. Tough shit"

Oh the irony....

Don't necessarily disagree with you, at least when it comes to cat-calling, talking about women's looks, etc. in a laddish manner, but one person's inappropriate is another's norm.

The double-standards in terms of acceptability used to be all in favour of men, they've switched, but the reality is the real nasty men continue to behave as they always did and the decent (ish) men feeling progressively more isolated and angry with society continue down their spiral of incel bullshit.

You are correct you didn't specify which Country. I apologise. I guess the suffragette comment from you made me think along those lines.

But the same thing still stands. You cannot use online social media interactions from completely different Countries to make a claim on a UK website of male behaviour. After all, you could be using the current Afghan regime as proof of mysogyny.

If you look for something online, you will find it.

I'm not a 12 year old boy so I have never before watched an Andrew Tate video. I know he's accused of human trafficking which seems crazy to me.

But I can't help but feel that all this furore has been manufactured. The backlash from schools "banning" him being discussed is what has led.to him gaining his status.

If they had ignored him, he'd just be another flash in the pan bloke with a TikTok account and no one would know who he was.

I think porn has a lot to do with it.

Obviously porn is most violent sexual abuse of women, which boys & young men learn to think of as "sex" and then want to reenact this with girls/women.

Women and girls see porn and think "er, no thanks, that doesn't look fun" and so fewer want to have sex with men.

Men then get angry because their masculinity is at risk or something if they are having sex, and they take to social media to complain about how women are bitches for not giving them the sex they're due.

These angry men whip each other up into a wank-rage over women's insubordinance and how women have too many rights these days, making them even less appealing to women, and the cycle perpetuates.

Incel men's social issues also make it less likely they will be successful in holding down jobs or progressing in jobs etc so they become even more angry and online.

I see a lot more responses in the region of “women have more social power now, you can’t say anything anymore without women complaining of sexism”

to which my response is always “well yes, of course you can’t just say anything anymore!”

Lots of men are having to mind their language and moderate their viewpoints in public for fear of challenge and they dont like it. Tough shit 🤷🏻‍♀️ Welcome to the world lads

@CallumDansTransitVan I’m not British and I don’t live in the UK, the internet is world wide.

Using remarks from men across the globe on instagram is not in the slightest representative of UK men as a whole.

Where did the OP say she was specifically referring to men in the UK?

Oh look, CallumTheRacistWhiteVanMan is also an MRA. Quelle surprise.

Using remarks from men across the globe on instagram is not in the slightest representative of UK men as a whole. A man posting from Arab culture will have completely different values. Same with some Muslim communities around the world.

SerafinasGoose
If you look at one of my previous posts in this thread about the trans issue I don't support them in using Womens changing areas toilets etc, and my personal feeling is that a lot of it is mental illness rather than genuine trapped in wrong body stuff. Most men I speak to feel the same.

I have also on this thread spoken out against unisex toilets or changing. I don't really want to be in the same place as Women changing as it leaves me open to false allegations.

I've only really come across this online. Not to say it's not happening of course.

But these incel online men are not just some lone crackpots who we can ignore because they're irrelevant. They walk amongst us, they are our sons/husbands/brothers/friends, as hard as that is for us to acknowledge. They pose a considerable threat to women and society. The US high-school shooters, we hear about very often have a background of misogyny and hatred towards women. We've had Incels like Eliott Rogers mass killing women because they hate them. These young men are generally radicalised online. The US authorities have labelled these online manosohere groups as domestic terrorists. They're not just some lone crackpots, they are dangerous to women and we ignore them at our own peril.

The trans situation is a completely seperate and an infinitely tiny scenario to try to use as proof of mysogyny.

Anyone who has had involvement with or knows anything about trans rights activism will recognise that this simply isn't the case. Whether it ever metamorphosed from the less nefarious aim of actually protecting and improving the lives of trans people it's hard to say, but it now has little if anything to do with actual trans rights. The 'Q' area of TQ, the normalizing of specific behaviour which has led to widespread safeguarding concerns is a case in point.

The aggressive, disproportionate response to even tentative dissenting voices should tell you this much. The movement has been largely hijacked by male supremacism.

The men posting on here these days seem to have very similar voices. 🤔

@CallumDansTransitVan you said “Again online posts are not really representative of a cross setion of men. It will also depend on which forum you are on at the time. As several others have said. There is a higher than average posts here on Mumsnet that are contradictory about what is acceptable male behaviour or female.”

However, I actually think it is a good cross section of men, instagram for example is where I encounter most of the aggression in responses from men. They are from different countries, cultures, occupations, age groups etc. The hostility is the same though. And attacking someone’s appearance is standard when they feel they are losing the argument.

Andrew Tate caused a fair chunk of this. That and the 'Karenising' of women who dare to speak up for themselves.

A feminist?! You must hate trans people then, and that means we hate YOU.

One giant leap backwards in an ocean of regression.

Bad times indeed.

If you want to go back through the thread, you will find my initial post partly supports what you said. The discussion has now evolved into looking at possible reasons why.

But to go back to that original response. Being critical of anothers politics, viewpoints, looks or indeed what they eat, isn't being prejudicial. You do it, I do it, The local Vicar does it. It is just part and parcel of being human.

AnIndianWoman · Today 22:36

Men who spend all their time on the internet usually have major issues. I actually think mysogyny has reduced but the internet has given a voice to crackpots who usually wouldn’t be listened to.”

Spot on.