To hate the Daily Mail and its anti WFH vendetta

it was Charlie Mullins that mentioned the golf course but if it resonates.....

The Paper that Supported the Blackshirts, the one that loves photographing teenage young women around exam results time, presumably would like people in an office so older men can leer/letch or worse towards young women.

As far as promotions go, I got promoted three times when I was working from home in the same company.

Guess how many times I got promoted working in the office for the same company? Zero.

WFH enabled me, a quieter personality, to shine as I was better able to interact with people via Teams. In the office, I was always quieter than others so it was easier for the louder, bigger and more extroverted personalities to take over. Yet, interacting virtually, gave me an opportunity to show what skills and knowledge that I had.

So, all those competency-building opportunities that I'd previously missed out on, came my way. So, it's not remotely true that people who WFH will be eliminated from promotion opportunities. It doesn't make a lick of sense-if a business is going either fully remote or even hybrid and they're looking to promote internally-they're going to be choosing from a pool of people who WFH.

Also, not every employer promotes on who sucks up to the boss most or who is most visible in the office. Some actually promote on who will be best for the job.

It just goes to show that people will fall for anything if you package it right and it suits the narrative they already believe.

Yes, of course, @jane1956 remote workers are all off to the golf courses every day. Of course.

The real deal behind the hate for homeworking isn't just about offices, lattes and whatever else fits across the strapline of the Daily Mail. It's much more that it's actually empowered some people that aren't supposed to be empowered. Especially women. And that terrifies a whole strata of society that has devoted it's entire existence to keeping them in their place

yes that is my view as well

it was Charlie Mullins that mntioned the golf courses I have never played so not actually been on one but it makes a lot of sense

Our council bosses play golf in the next borough for this reason. 😂😂 The ones with boats on the marina are less likely to be spotted. With good wifi you can of course work in your second home/caravan, on your boat.

Do you think perhaps some of them might be retired, rather than remote workers?

agree with them as said on twitter the golf course has never been so full! too many lazy folk got it too easy now since covid

No they won't. They will complain about a lack of public services, which they will ascribe to lazy public service workers, not to two people trying to do the job of 3.

The issue of promotion is certainly irrelevant for some women, yes. Quite why that led you to the barefoot and pregnant conclusion is for you to spell out.

As for the spanning decades part, the massive increase in remote working is only three and a half years old. There has been an utter sea change, and by definition nobody can have more than a couple of years of experience of this new normal. What happened back when remote working was a rarity doesn't tell us about what will happen now it isn't.

😂😂

I've had a career spanning decades. Do you really believe calculating your pension out now and again, pushing for promotion and moving on if you've come to the end of the road with the job you're in is irrelevant.

Have we really gone from barefoot, pregnant in the kitchen to, barefoot pregnant, WFH. Jakers!!

YABU for reading The Mail

Insensitive about pensions? Really?

Is that your take from my post. Are we supposed to be grateful that we have a pension at all?

It is also worth noting that the concerns about promotions etc, as well as not being relevant to all women anyway, have nothing other than hunches and at best a couple of years of the posters own workplace experience to back them up.

All of which will affect your pension.

With many working families - women in particular - having to skip meals to stay solvent, having other people worry about their pensions does seem a little ... insensitive.

I don't tear up easily, but hearing a new start accepting they will never retire really upset me.

The advice you give here is good, regardless of whether a woman works remotely or in person.

My only concern is that women who WFH will suffer with lack of pay rises, promotion. All of which will affect your pension. My advice don't take this lying down. Keep checking jobs in your sector especially the salaries. Don't let your skills rust become outdated, do the courses available to you.

It's horses for courses I guess

Why have you automatically made a negative assumption that people are working less for these reasons? WFH opens up the possibility of walking the dog at lunchtime, or before or after work when you would normally commuting. The school run could take as little as 15 - 20 minutes, easily knocked off a lunch break or made up at the end of the day. Getting tea ready on time can mean starting it at 5.30 instead of having to commute back for up to an hour first. And unless you’re discussing the meaning of life with the washing machine repair man, is it really going to take that long?

I get that, in a call centre type role, there is a more rigid shift pattern and a more consistent flow of work. But for a lot of WFH roles, there will be a more natural variation of workload. I can’t be the only one who has particularly busy periods and quieter times. A great benefit of WFH for me has been the end of mindless “busy work” - the jobs you invent to look like you’re busy in a quiet period in case someone senior walks past your desk. No more deleting old emails, clearing out desk drawers, reading HR policies I already understand on the intranet… now if I’m not busy, damn right I’ll go and load the dishwasher or wipe down the worktops. I don’t apologise for it.

Because the point is, my company doesn’t just pay me for the work I do - they pay me for my availability to work. It’s essentially a retainer as much as anything. They could opt to pay a freelancer per task or project instead, but this typically comes at a premium, requires management and runs the risk of there being no one available at short notice. Therefore it’s cheaper and more efficient all round to pay me and accept the fact I might be idle at quiet times, in the knowledge that they have an experienced person ready and waiting - and on a salary, meaning they can’t charge overtime if a project means working extra hours - when needed.

If I was pissing off to the pub at 3pm on a quiet day, meaning I wasn’t available for last minute emergencies, then yes, I’d be taking the piss. If I’m a few feet away from my laptop unloading the washing machine and can respond to a ping on Teams in seconds, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

It's much more that it's actually empowered some people that aren't supposed to be empowered. Especially women. And that terrifies a whole strata of society that has devoted its entire existence to keeping them in their place.

Women, disabled people, and especially disabled women.

@Iwasafool

If you weren't making a post about how tough it was for you compared to now, what exactly was the point of raising your now 50 years out of date experience as a first time buyer?

You say that previous generations to you couldn't afford homes, but you could - you were better off than they were, but the generations after you are not better off than you are - that is the point.

All your response does is to show me how out of touch you are with the current situation faced by the generations after you.

At the start of the 70's average house prices were around 2.2 times the average (male) wage. After the big boom during the early 70s and the economic turmoil of the later 70s that had risen to just less than 3 times the average salary in 1980.

Right now in 2023 the average house price is over 10 times the average salary in the UK. The well over decade long stagnation in wages and continuing rises in house prices are completely unprecedented in recent times. Living standards are facing their fastest drop in the post-war era. Yet on that backdrop you think that your tale of woe from the early 70s is evidence that you also had it tough in any comparable way to what those after you have experienced over the last decade and half? Fixer uppers never make their money back unless you do most of the work yourself, this has always been the case.

As for your property - if we take the average salary of 27.5k and the average loan to salary ratio of 4.5 we get a house price of £124k - well below the average UK house price. That would still require someone to save almost £19k for a 15% deposit. With the current cost of living crisis that is simply an unattainable goal for most people in a reasonable time frame (a couple of years for example).

As for the jibe about my professional salary. That's exactly the kind of snark I'm used to from boomers when confronted with younger generations showing them the economic reality they are now facing.

Oh, and I don't live in the South East either.

I know a few people who have simply upped and left in that situation. Obviously IT is slightly an outlier, but not only did they find what they wanted, the vacancies they left behind became harder to fill.

The real deal behind the hate for homeworking isn't just about offices, lattes and whatever else fits across the strapline of the Daily Mail. It's much more that it's actually empowered some people that aren't supposed to be empowered. Especially women. And that terrifies a whole strata of society that has devoted it's entire existence to keeping them in their place.

It's beyond living memory now, but it's not unlike when women had been forced to prove their worth in WW1 and then trying to row back that to the little woman view in 1918. Women ? Wanting a vote ? Surely not !

Historians will know what happened after the "back to the fields" campaign of the Statute of Labourers 1351.

I know someone who works for HMRC, and being in the office or not has no bearing on productivity. In fact a long commute and in-office distractions can detract from the working day. The problem for the HMRC as for other sections of the public sector is that resources have been slashed to the bone and then some. They're dealing with antiquated IT systems, poor pay, not enough people, and processes introduced by private consultants that slow things down (but the consultants get their pay and move on).

Ahh I see. My job is managing this balance all the time, so I suppose I find it easier or at least inevitable. I could be writing a report or paper and have to down tools immediately to deal with an urgent quesrion or meeting. If I got pissdd off every time that happened I woidm be permanently angry.