To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

My issue with the movement is, the movement went in a really right wing direction basically... amongst other things.

Could you expand on that at all? What elements of the GC position (there really isn't a GC movement as such) do you think are really right wing?

As it just sounds a lot like 'TERFS are funded by the Christian right', which is a common accusation made against GC women in the UK where it has no basis. There is no Christian right in the UK.

Yes which is why children should be encouraged to accept their healthy bodies via counselling etc rather than becoming sterilised life long pharma clients.

I also care more about vulnerable women than I do about dysphoric or AGP males.

My issue with the movement is, the movement went in a really right wing direction basically... amongst other things.

Do you not think that's a bit of a flabby reason? There isn't a single "gender critical" movement; there have always been rightwing and liberal/leftwing elements on both sides of the argument. Yes there's a rightwing movement against transition which is also against any kind of gender non-conforming behaviour; but equally the "wrong body" narrative has always been favoured by some rightwing and homophobic people who are in favour of transition if it measn they can have a heterosexual son (or daughter) instead of a lesbian daughter (or a gay son)

Some of the most vigorous whistleblowers against the unquestioning transition of children have been lesbians and gay men afraid of what is being done for no good reason, to an increasing proportion of children who would otherwise grow up attracted to the same sex and comfortable in their own unaltered bodies.

One reason why the right has been strong on this is because the liberal left turned their backs on women, most especially in America. The ACLU chose to defend the right of rapists to be in women's prisons against the rights of female prisoners not to be raped in prison. In the UK there are liberal and feminist law groups who will take on these discrimination cases on behalf of women. In the US there are none and the only way to fnd someone to defend women's rights to single-sex space is through rightwing (often Christian) organisations. That's the fault of the left.

@begaydocrime42 What made you decide to "come out"? We all know that many who label themselves as trans have had difficult childhoods with a disproportionate number who have been in care. Some have experienced sexual abuse, others homophobia (including internalised homophobis), or mental illness. So yes, we do feel for these poor children being misled into damaging their health. Some adults have a sexual fetish and if they are not encouraging children to transition I feel some sympathy for their distress too. I have no fucks left to give for people who encourage homosexual conversion therapy under the guise of "helping" children.

Do you care about the problems of trans people, the deep trauma they've experienced and continue to experience etc?

Most of that deep trauma existed before they decided they had gender issue and have been proven continue post transition. This is what happens when the MH aspect of ASD isn’t recognised or treated properly (especially before puberty). Transitioning is like placing a plaster over a bullet hole in terms of ‘fixing’a ND’s persons identity issues, but unfortunately most people don’t understand this and think supporting transitioning is the kindest as most ‘life saving’ thing to do. It’s those with little understanding of ASD = Identity Displacement that really haven’t got a clue what they’re ‘supporting’ with adolescents who believe they’re trans. All they’re doing is applauding their mental distress from over masking and lost of identity through masking like they’ve discovered their ‘true self’.

This

I read a lot of biographies of adult trans people. They never hide the homophobic upbringings, the restrictive stereotypes and sexist expectations, the bullying from parents and peers.

I don't doubt the trauma experienced by many.

But I think it's more important to tackle the root of the trauma and promote acceptance of gay children, autistic children and children who do not fit stereotypes, rather than reifying these abusive upbringings as some inevitable right of passage on the path to a trans identity.

My issue with the movement is, the movement went in a really right wing direction basically... amongst other things.

Eh? There is no gender critical movement ( I assume that's what you're referring to) in the same way there is no 'the sky is blue movement' or 'rain is wet' movement because the majority of people (no matter who they like to vote for) who know what a man and what a woman is and don't buy the 78 genders/a woman's penis etc nonsense.

Do you care about the problems of trans people, the deep trauma they've experienced and continue to experience etc?

Oh yes, very much so, probably at least as much as you do. That's why it matters so much that we don't this to children. We don't risk adding trauma to children. So we avoid "strong recommendations based on weak evidence".

It's all relative, isn't it? Do you care about the problems of trans people, the deep trauma they've experienced and continue to experience etc? Probably not, so I could easily turn that back and say ahh you're so fortunate.
Many, many things are problems that vary in importance and relevance from one person to the next. For example I'm pro decriminalisation of drugs but I don't expect everyone to hold that as importantly as I do... I like reading these threads as like I say, I have followed the debate for ages and I offer my opinion where I feel I want to.
My issue with the movement is, the movement went in a really right wing direction basically... amongst other things.

Nope, it's the anticipated rolling back from the extremist TRA demands of the past few years and refraining GC into something other than what we were actually saying. So the narrative becomes "we were never asking for stuff like no single sex provisions, medicalising kids, TW in lesbian spaces, rape support groups or female prisons! That was all nasty hysteria from the Gender Critters! In fact, this whole culture war was their fault for making such crazy accusations!"

It's bloody annoying, but I just take a deep breath and remember the important thing is we get where GC needs to be, not whether GC people are validated.

Is “I used to be gender critical” the new “I am as gender critical as they come but”?

'Gender crits'?

Funny that it was another poster the other day calling women who disagreed with gender ideology 'gender critters'. As in animals.

Pure misogyny.

Sounds pretty terfy there to me. Careful!

Do you mind, less of the "gender crits".

And do you deny that the "bad stuff" is happening?

It is happening, and it needs to stop.

Women need privacy, dignity and safety, they need single sex spaces which are being invaded and taken away. Children and teenagers need to be safe from ideologically driven, harmful medical interventions that are already happening.

I actually do agree with both of those things,

But they don't seem to bother you much? Do you think these problems just exists on Twitter and don't exist or do any damage in the real world?

I tune out of it now

So it doesn't affect you or anyone you care about in the real world? Not all of us are so fortunate.

So when you said

I used to be gender critical myself before I came out so no, it's not that. I just really don't agree with the movement anymore

What is it that you don't agree with?

I actually do agree with both of those things, and many trans people would agree with that as well. Gender crits sit on Twitter and get fed a stream of all the bad stuff designed to provoke outrage, probably bad for your own mental health really. I tune out of it now

You really don't agree with women being able to have single sex spaces or children being kept away from experimental medical and surgical treatments?

I've followed the debate closely since 2013. I used to be gender critical myself before I came out so no, it's not that. I just really don't agree with the movement anymore and that's fine, I'm happy with your viewpoint and I'd like to think people are fine with mine 💁

Sorry it's from a while ago but was reported in The Times. Seems it was 1.5 million over 6 years. The share token links no longer work for me.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3762900-puberty-blocker-drug-firm-donated-cash-to-lib-dem-s-the-times?reply=92153040&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

All party groups at Westminster getting donations from pharma.

LDs was £100k if it’s this pharma company you mean.

I remember the puberty blocker firm giving the lib dems £100,000, wonder how much they've had since and how much is hidden behind less obvious names.

IIRC it was 1.4 million not 100k.

Labour are following the money, it's that simple. There are plenty of articles and one programme about who funds trans activists. Add that Starmer knows that whatever by elections suggest the general election is less certain and he may need the lib dems. I remember the puberty blocker firm giving the lib dems £100,000, wonder how much they've had since and how much is hidden behind less obvious names.

It's not apathy though - it's definitely disillusionment. I'll be writing something oon my ballot paper but it's probably not going to be a vote.

Amazing 👏

This is also an excellent point. What is the hold up with the schools guidance??