To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

Go and do your own googling.

Well that’s a testy response 😬

It shouldn’t be that hard if you feel GC left covers pro women stance well. You say you don’t post here much or engage with right wing GC things. So that means you’re a bit depleted for left wing versions as it’s not very prevalent.

I’ve never seen anyone respond to this presumably because they can’t. It shows the flaw for the left.

That absence is a big problem.

Go and do your own googling.

I'm a centrist, my "label" would be radical feminist not left or right. I find far left TRA style identity politics equally as repugnant as far right "anti-woke" politics.

When it comes to an election I'll vote for who has the policies that are best for the majority of the UK (e.g low to middle earning working people) If they have something credible to say about womens rights then extra brownie points.

Saying "women have vaginas" is a statement of fact and is not relevant to my voting intention tbh.

I don't know why posters get so intent on asking questions but not answering them

Because when you ask about other things related to feminism these posters take a right wing view
I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies. They think that immigrants are causing women to be harassed across the UK. They don't agree that rape is effectively decriminalised.
As I said upthread, many posters are on FWR because the GC position often overlaps with their religious/conservative/right wing views and so the board is not really about feminism any more. And neither are a lot of other GC sites.

That ‘shy Tory’ thing is very stale by now. There’s no ‘fig leaf’

But your left wing politics and media is not strong on being pro women

Can you link your left wing GC material?

Why is there such an absence of it?

"I'm voting conservative because they know what a woman is"

But you just said you've voted conservative and that didn't make you right wing. So why would it make these posters? 🤔

"I'm voting conservative because they know what a woman is", on further questioning these posters usually divert into a widescale questioning of Labour/the left, how they can't be trusted and only the conservatives can. Its very clear that for many posters the "they know what a woman is" is providing a convenient fig leaf for the shy tory.

It's very reductive. And fails to note the pivotal role the conservatives played in where we are today.

I don't think feminists should avoid talking about anything. I think a position that only certain kinds of men, I.e. foreign ones, are rapists is not a feminist position. Yet its stated on here all the time as a fact and a reason GC voters should vote Conservative.

I voted Conservative once, that doesn't make me right wing. KJK is happy to go on right wing shows, align herself with alt-right views, I find it objectionable. If she genuinely supported womens rights she would not want to be promoted by Jordan Peterson.

You can disagree with me, my point however is what used to be primarily a radical feminist movement has grown to encompass some very right wing positions that I prefer not to engage with. That's my right.

Posters can be very right wing

Can you give examples of what you see on here that backs that up?

She was a member of the Labour party. If that makes her 'right wing' then whatever.

'mentions of coordinated rapes of women by Muslim men.' - is this something you think feminists should avoid talking about?

arabella I've been here since KJK used to post as Posie Parker. She never identified as feminist and I've never seen an indication she is left wing. I thought she was quite proudly not a feminist in fact.
She's done great things for the GC cause but my views don't align with hers and because I was around when she used to post I find some of the way she is held up as some sort of icon quite strange

What do you mean 'follow'? Are you talking about Twitter?

Are there many left wing GC sites or media you follow?

Which left wing outlets do you think covers it well from a pro woman stance?

If you follow right wing GC people you get exposed to all manner of views that I find rereprehensible. For example, there's quite a lot of anti-immgrant islamophobia and mentions of coordinated rapes of women by Muslim men.

There's a lot of GC people saying they will vote Conservative because of right wing populists like Braverman and Badenoch. That scares me.

There's GC people posting YouTube videos of Jordan Peterson. The man who believes in enforced marriage to stop men being incels.

Theres very little feminist debates going on, besides jumping down peoples throats if they dont enthusiastically agree with "woman = adult human female, in all circumstances" and i dont see it too far different to the old TRA " trans women ARE women, no debate". Which makes me sad.

So I don't follow GC sites/people as much as I used to, including here. I assumed that's what PP was trying to say.

What utter nonsense.

KJK is an ex Labour party member. She is not 'right wing'. Most of the women in FWR are left of centre.

I know it's not organised.
But I can see how hanging around GC.spaces online.(like this board) might put some people off. Posters can be very right wing and enthusiastic about some pretty unpleasant posters if they say "woman = adult human female"

I used to call myself "gender critical" but I'm less likely to now because of the association with right wing non feminists e.g. Kellie Jay Keen.

I'm more likely to say I'm a radical feminist and explain what that means (that women are oppressed on the basis of biology).

This. And given one in four (at least) girls/women will be victims of sexual abuse, unrestricted male access to females via gender self-identification is a horrific prospect.

And I honestly think a hell of a lot of issues could be resolved by people just being trans and proud of that, rather than trying to convince the world to accept you as the opposite sex.

You can't control people's perceptions of you, and nor should you try to. And you can't rely on that to make yourself feel better.

I don't really understand this.

These people are by definition NOT gender critical, so why would it put you off being so? It's easy to distinguish yourself from people who are wedded to gender stereotypes!

There isn't an organised 'movement' by any means. There are groups of people with different aims, opinions and methods. You don't have to align with all or any of them.

Do you care about the problems of trans people, the deep trauma they've experienced and continue to experience etc?

why yes, yes we do. Which is mainly why we want to prevent children from transitioning. If an adult wants to, we have no issue with that. Children are a whole different matter.
And yet still, child or adult should know they never can become the opposite sex only a simulacrum.

Theres this entire board full of people who care about others. It's like people only see what they wish to see.

Munro Berdorf has written about being an effeminate gay boy hated by his father. You can’t help wonder if that was part of seeking to become a trans woman. "I didn’t really have a place because I was too girly for the boys and I wasn’t a girl – or seen as a girl. So I was ostracised, and the ostracism never stopped until I left high school.” Her own family struggled with her sexuality"

@begaydocrime42

Do you care about the problems of trans people, the deep trauma they've experienced and continue to experience etc?

I'm interested in this point. Are you talking about caring that a subset of trans people suffer trauma, just as a subset of any group will sadly suffer trauma, but trans people are less supported when they do, or are you suggesting there is a specific deep trauma that is an intrinsic part of being trans and will be experienced by all trans people?

If the latter, is this trauma that comes from within the trans person, for example the trauma of continously feeling a mismatch with your own body or of understanding society will never see you are you really are because of your body, something that might be managed or reduced by physical and social transition but can never not exist, or are you thinking of trauma from outside that is inflicted by other people who subject the trans person to rejection, violance, mental or sexual abuse and prejudice simply because they are visibily trans , something that would entirely not exist if society accepted trans people's social transiton in every way?

Plus left politics

How are SNP and Welsh Labour, plus NZ, Canada and probably others

Are they captured or pro women?

Why is that do you think?

My issue with the movement is, the movement went in a really right wing direction basically

Why don’t you ask where the left are on this?

Where is the left leaning media? Is it captured or pro women

If not the latter, then why?

My issue with the movement is, the movement went in a really right wing direction basically... amongst other things.
I agree with this. It used to be that radical feminists were the majority of the GC posters on here, they tend to be a left wing bunch.
Now there are a lot more people who have found the GC movement and it chimes with them because they are religious and believe God created men and women to fulfil roles so a male can't be a woman. Or they are very conservative and think the same. Or they believe men and women evolved to be different and therefore should stay in their lane.

The radfem position is there is no gender and people shouldn't be stereotyped into gender roles because of their sex.

The conservative (not political Conservative voter) position is that stereotypes matter and women should comply with the stereotypes associated with their sex.

I've noticed a lot more of the latter on here. And they tend to have a load of other associated unpleasant views or think weird things, like Suella Braverman deserves voting for because she's not woke.

As an old school feminist it is very off-putting.