To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

I dont want a gender debate. I want the GRA abolished.

Again, you go do your vote your way. I'll do it mine, that is democracy.

You vote for the good of the people and want a medal, that's evident.

If you believe a woman is anyone who says they are one then fine, good for you. If you think thats a figleaf, oh well. You think whatever you want, most of us here dont have to say why we will vote one way v the other way. We do discuss it, but you dont have to read the words.

Here on t'internet we dont owe you an explanation of why we vote whichever way, your opinion is just that and nothing to do with us. If you think there is a lurch to vote right wing, maybe think on why? Instead of assuming we owe you an explanation, maybe take it up with the politicians. Why are they not listening to women.

In America there is starting to be a slo-o-o-w realisation that's possible to be gender critical and not be rightwing. But it's very slow. Liberal and leftwing women are afraid that even to have GC views makes them rightwing and they're also afraid to express GC views because the US liberal/progressive/left has rejected GC views and will insist that GC women support the right even if they have decades of leftwing, feminist and pro-gay activisim behind them. The US is a long way behind the UK on this. That's partly because reproductive rights are tied together with medical transition in the US in a way they're not in UK.

So it's not that GC women are necessarily rightwing or socially conservative or are becoming more rightwing or seocially conservative. Instead the liberal left has refused to recognise the possibiity of GC arguments from a liberal and leftwing point of view.

You: People keep saying this too. You don't know me.. You can try to dismiss an opposing point of view as "arrogant", "no humility" or whatever but ultimately that is not a debate.

Also you: So stop pretending that's why you want to vote for them.

So just to be clear, other posters shouldn't assume your views or motives, but you are allowed to assume theirs?

I am not a Tory. I (unlike you) have never voted Tory, and I have voted in every election available to me in the last 31 years. I have no need of a 'figleaf' to cover motivations I don't have. I want to vote for a party that respects women and will protect women's rights. There aren't any. So I will have to choose the least worst of what's on offer.

Maybe have a look at the arrogance of telling women what they think and why.

Who are you exactly that I would have to "pretend" about anything to appease/impress you? IDGAF

The Tories have certainly got some sections of society in a froth; perhaps it's a former Tory voter thing?

No I don't know you and for that I can be grateful.

If it's a distracting culture war just whipped up to benefit the Tories, the implication seems to be that it would be better if the press didn't talk about the things that are happening around the law, kids medical issues, authoritarianism on the left, and women's issues, and that no party addressed them eithe.

I can't somehow see that as better, on the contrary, it seems a lot worse.

The Tories are talking about this because a lot of people are worried about it, and it differentiates them from the other parties.

I am sure they are also glad to have an issue that takes the heat off of other elements of their performance, and makes the other parties look like imbeciles. But talking about things that concern people is actually what they are supposed to be doing.

In any case, it's not like Labour and the Lib Dems haven't tried to make hay with these exact same issues, used them cynically, and tried to use them as a kind of bribe for a certain set of their voters. If they hadn't the Tories wouldn't have had nearly as much scope to use them either.

The idea that people aren't really concerned with bondage in books for 5
6 year olds, or medical transition of teens , and their concern is manufactured, is a bit crazy to me

Well I don’t have to answer to you on demand. You’re far too wound up for any kind of debate

As long as you quit with telling people they are ‘pretending’ and think your priorities matter that much for someone else’s vote.

If you can actually reflect on how arrogant that is then great.

You vote how you want and others will too.

The gender-wars has been nothing short of a godsend for entire demographics of women.
What do you mean when you say this?

OK great. Make a load of assertions with nothing to back it up. I assume because there is nothing there.
Boring. Not a debate.

The gender-wars has been nothing short of a godsend for entire demographics of women.

On a separate note I too dislike when women like Suella and Kemi are criticised for not following the supposed 'correct' narrative owing to their heritages. Their views are in no way at odds with the fact that they're women of colour and in many respects align with their respective histories. If people thought Theresa may was tarnished as a result of her hostile environment policy that is merely a walk in the park for Suella.

Tbh I have zero desire to engage on any level beyond a suggestion to tone down the vote ordering

You don’t get yours plus everyone else’s.

Hello Mrs Merton.

So you’re now pre-writing posts for other people. Don’t worry you can write much to make me feel ‘stupid’

You are getting wound up on your own steam here.

We get a vote each, we have different views. You’ll just have to deal with that.

You do sound incandescent though. It’s a vote and we all get to decide.

So stefanos what is it that attracts you to voting conservative?

Just awaiting the "you are why people get entrenched views as you make them feel stupid" then I can call bingo.

Take some fucking ownership. You want to vote conservative, you want to be right wing. So have the courage of your convictions and say why. A load of "Labour won't say women have cervixes" doesn't wash. There are plenty of other options. You choose Conservative.

You are writing the words. That last line is there.

People are not pretending. Just focus on your own vote. We all get one each.

Agree. I raise a brow when I see frothing posts about trans, gender, all the 'pro-laws' and dubious sex education in schools - all happening under Tory rule - and I know the frothers are Tory voters. A right-wing MP/in the limelight bod only has to say something (supposedly but not really, just vote and popularity chasing) agreeing with their views and theyre tripping over themselves to applaud said person. They care more about being right wing than anything else and I don't take them seriously at all. Divide and rule is working very well for the Tories - they know which buttons to press - so clearly they'll continue.

Stop quoting me out of context. See first line.
People can vote how they like. That's totally irrelevant to the fact the Tories keep trying to froth up the electorate to win votes, with no intention of actually doing anything. They have a huge majority. They could make "woman = adult human female" law. They don't. So why use that as a vote decider? Why is that any more likely to happen if they win the next election?

And do you know what? I'm not the one out of kilter with the majority. I know women have vaginas and still won't vote Conservative. Looking forward to the country getting rid of this bunch of idiots, and a more sensible gender debate so we can get back to feminist debate, not arguments about wokeness

I was 18, bought up by a very conservative family, believed the "Labour will bankrupt the country" shtick. It was 1997.
Then we had the best period of my adult life under Blair/Brown. I voted lib dem (in fact was a member) and hated Blair. Loved Kennedy then Clegg. I even quite liked Cameron and May.
I said I would never vote Labour after Iraq. But the fact is the best time of my life was under the Labour government. The Tories have fucked the country in their pursuit of power. Brexit was a stupid gamble by Cameron to see off UKIP. Austerity chickens are coming home to roost. The party was led by a liar who kicked out the sensible MPs and now we have a bunch of far right weirdos in charge.
The monster raving loony party would do better than what we have. Yet "the Conservatives know what a woman is"

So stop pretending that's why you want to vote for them.

This is just not right. You don’t get to sum up other people’s votes that way.

Look at your own priorities and let others do the same.

People keep saying this too. You don't know me. Having values is nothing to do with privilege/humility and that's a pretty insulting thing to say.
You can try to dismiss an opposing point of view as "arrogant", "no humility" or whatever but ultimately that is not a debate.
People can vote how they like. That's totally irrelevant to the fact the Tories keep trying to froth up the electorate to win votes, with no intention of actually doing anything.
They have a huge majority. They could make "woman = adult human female" law. They don't. So why use that as a vote decider? Why is that any more likely to happen if they win the next election?

It's just bollocks. So stop pretending that's why you want to vote for them.

You said it with more energy than I could bother with

Sometimes posters on here really don’t move on from arrogance. It’s strange but gets stale

And I think "I'm voting conservative- they know what a woman is" is a figleaf for more base reasons for voting. Like "I'm voting leave - we need sovereignty". I think the actual reasons for most people are based on what directly benefits them or some less noble reason (like they think the country is "full"). To say that makes them ashamed so it's easier to pretend it's for some social good.

You are staggeringly arrogant. Do you think you are the only noble voter? JFC I think you would have a little more humility if life had ever been a real struggle for you. If you're having difficulty understanding why people don't vote according to your assessment of the country's priorities then might a suggest reading a little Rob Henderson. I think he was the man who coined the phrase luxury beliefs.

Well I think the good of the country is for women to be legally recognised and children protected from making irreversible decisions. If you can't have sex drink drive or vote how can you make decisions that will affect future sexual and cognitive functions?